A rant about frustration [not a question]

I think most of all owners here will agree. But this is also what we're here for. To push this system forward and make it attractive for everyone. In my opinion, the hardware is not good enough and I'm not talking about the performance, but the whole package. There are too many flaws that come together and they're too many to list them up here in this comment. SailfishOS itself is a great OS, but the team is rather small and if we keep that in mind, they have achieved impressive results as of today. Sure, there are bugs here and there, sometimes they're really annoying or render the phone almost useless (ie. sudden random reboots during calls with the latest update). But all in all, I don't feel comfortable when using Android, iOS or Windows Mobile. Other OSes are out of competition. They're either too old (MeeGo, Symbian) or can't keep up with SailfishOS (FirefoxOS, Tizen). This is why I'm sticking with my sub par jolla device hoping that we'll see a high end successor anytime soon.

I can only agree. There are so many deficiencies, and even simple things, like the calendar, are insufficiently implemented. I am constantly on the brink of switching the device. To be honest, we are still in the beta phase. But, as Anna writes, Jolla has my trust, and I feel uncomfortable to use a Microsoft or Apple device, or Android. Let's hope that not too many users turn their back to Jolla because of this disappointment. It is difficult to get them back and to correct negative public image.

"As a former Android user, my focus was (and still is) on Android apps".

Well, you should have bought an Android device.

@eson: Jolla advertises being Android compatible. Telling everyone finding deficiancies that they bought the wrong device will certainly not contribute to Jolla's success. I would call this arrogance. Jolla needs (unfortunately) Android compatibility.

@Stefanix You may call it whatever you want. That is an important part of freedom of expression in the democratic world.

whatsapp android works, and there is not one but two whatsapp native clients available.

being and early adopter to new ideas is never satisfying on the same level then to continue swimming with already grown streams. Compare the current state of Jolla/Sailfish with the iphone gen1 and gen2 in 2009. Apple needed 3 years until releasing the iphone 4 to silence rants from even feature phone users switching to ios and missing vital features. And than think, how many people where working at Apple to accomplish that. On top of that, Jolla has "missed the smartphone Train" by at least 4 years and catching up now sure feels like running after that train barefooted. Concidering this points, Jolla is doing an awesome job providing a "useable" alternative to the much more mature competitors. Comparing is unfair and only for trolls to find food. There is nothing bad in using a second device to overcome the still existing shortages in sailfish os. One might see it as a defeat to give such advice, but again, making jolla responsible for trying to compete in a already settled market when they even started is unfair and lacks insight to history and market development of the last 6 years. It all comes down to the question, are you willing to make slight cutbacks on your convenience in view of a possibly bright future.

Yes, it's still a long way for Jolla and it's worth to go it together. Thats why I still support them.

You cannot persuade your contacts to use something else than WhatsApp... But you have no problem to accept that your contacts make you use WhatsApp. Do you see the problem?

@mosen: It's not about blaming Jolla for bad performance. I think even most of those being unhappy with the result, admit that Jolla did an incredible job to deliver what we have now. But the Jolla phone is not only a fan object, it has to fulfill certain tasks in real life. To be a profitable company and survive on a long term, what we all here want, Jolla needs a broad user base. Comparing Jolla with other devices and naming the deficiencies is natural and necessary. Jolla has to withstand criticism, and so have hardcore fans.

@Stefanix, that is correct and not defying what i stated. But it is not justifying a rant still. I do not want anybody to be silent on wanted and needed features, but "a rant about frustration" is nothing worth sharing unless containing constructive elements or even conclusions. Else its called trolling... This question, titled "estimates and observation from a former android user switching to sailfish" with a constructive list of wanted features would have my full approval.

Well, I agree, TJC is not the right place to vent frustration, it's a technical forum. On the other hand, I would not call this trolling. A troll does hijack threads for self-expression and to destroy discussions. This is just serious and honest frustration. Maybe not the right place here, but no negative intentions either. In fact we should thank everyone who bought a Jolla device and supported this project. Some people just want a usable device for their money. I can understand them.

@Movetron What's your point? What's the question? The issues you address are covered elsewhere, each as a different post IIRC. So what kind of answer/help do you expect here?

@Anna@mosen & everybody. "…the team is rather small and if we keep that in mind, they have achieved impressive results as of today", "making jolla responsible for trying to compete in a already settled market when they even started is unfair and lacks insight to history and market development of the last 6 years", etc. This arguments are repeated constantly on this site every time anybody starts to complain about his/her disappointment with SFOS/Jolla. But this is a really bad argument. Just imagine a car manufacturer selling it's first model on the market. It's cheaper then MB, or BMW, or Lexus, but it's somewhere in the middle of the "middle class" prices. And there's just a few imperfections in the construction. Some wheels are square. Engine shuts down randomly. Only doors on the left side can be opened. And if you want to be able to turn left, you should open the hood, dig into the machinery, and with the help of file, screwdriver and hammer reshape some details. And if you give express to your dissatisfaction with all those issues on the company's tech forum, you don't recieve much help for more than a year, but some fans start telling you "…the team is rather small and if we keep that in mind, they have achieved impressive results as of today": there's only two square wheels left, engine still shuts down randomly, but the rear right door can be opened now, and to turn left you don't need hammer and file any more, though you still have to know how to use screwdriver and how to open the hood.

As well as "you should have bought an Android device" (@eson) — continuing with my car manufacturer: just the same as to tell "you should have bought a Toyota (Mazda, BMW, Chevrolet, etc.)" — total disaster. It's just a softer way to admit: "yes, this car worth nothing, and we know there's no way to help it, but still we have it and we want it, and if you don't, just leave us alone, don't tell us about all those bad things, it makes us feel uncomfortable".

All my previous comment is just to totally agree with @Stefanix: "Jolla phone is not only a fan object, it has to fulfill certain tasks in real life" — and to totally disagree with @mosen. People should tell what they don't like in SFOS/Jolla — this is not trolling, even if they can't tell you immidiately how to change everything to better. This is the only way to make things better.

Agree, OP. It is in the small and smart things that Jolla should have inherited from Nokia Maemo and Symbian (send any file, copy-paste, one finger zoom, universal absence of "go back" arrow, integrating every useful communication and sharing protocol etc.. Not to speak of total HW spoilers like FMtx, HDMI, IR, rich sound recording, superior speakers, camera..

It is harder for me to explain to an average phone user why I use the Jolla than why I use the N900.

I just wish there was more smart stuff that makes using Jolla Sailfish the obvious choice to people that don't care about multitasking aesthetics and their OS being not Android, iOS or WP.

@rburkhanov The flaw in your logic is that you assume all consumers have the same needs and Jolla's Sailfish OS either meets them or doesn't. The truth is more complicated. I read bug reports here about certain parts of the system (or 3rd party applications) that I never used and have no use for. If those seem like "square wheels" to some, well, so be it... But they're not for me.

Also, in the end, rants like the OP here don't help at all. What helps is describing the bug so that people can reproduce and fix it. If they don't (and very often thy don't, I give you that), there's just no reason to stick with a phone that doesn't satisfy your needs. Sell it and get another one. What the OP does here is a bit like complaining to the waiter that there's still no meat in the main course... after he's found out that he went to a vegetarian restaurant by mistake. I know that the comparison has its weaknesses :) but the point is: The waiter won't be able to change things while the guest is still at his table. It's up to the guest to get his steak and certainly not the waiter's responsibility.

@rburkhanov, Jolla knows all this. It is beeing complained for good since at least december 2013 repeatedly by users. The fact they are not able to silence demanding users is not grounded in ignorance nor stupidity on either side. It is incapability in regards to the team size. You can try to talk it away with inappropriat comparisons to markets with lifespans equaling smartphones by 10 (30 years in car industry is 3 year in smartphone industry) but that will help nobody either. What do you suggest, them to have the decency to turn back your money and leave the market because everything looks hopeless from your perspective? The way to go is, seperate the rant into seperate issues and file a question one by one if not already existing. Else i will continue to call it trolling based on the fact that this whole question has no vaild answere to recieve but stricty exists to spread negativity and vent personal frustration.

@ossi1967 Sorry, but seems like one of us don't get the point. The question in my comparation are not bugs — they exist and always would in any OS in this world. I don't even talk about the lack of apps (android apps mostly work ok now. And don't kill me for using android on Jolla, this is life and I have to do my everyday living. I swear, I would switch on native SFOS versions as soon as they would be available).

I'm talking about lack of BASIC functions like no way to share all file formats over BT (call it a not openning right side doors), no way to select text in the browser app (square weels), agressive OOM policy killing everything in the background thus making multitasking literally unusable, etc. I think you (and anyone here) can name much more. And these are what reduces the way I can use my Jolla smart phone in a really smart way.

@mosen I'm sure, Jolla do know everything and there's no ignorance nor stupidity on their side. Still I do consider my comparation appropriate. Just look in your own words. If 3 years in smartphone market = 30 years in car industry, then we have "Jolla cars" or "Jolla motors" about 20 years selling it's single model on the market with still some square wheels. And still complaining they are to little to make all doors open.

This is not like asking for meat in veg's restaurant (like @ossi1967 says above), it's like coming into a restaurant just to find a single dish in the menu (and the second one announced and soon arriving), with no bread, salt, pepper or any other spices. And no drinks, no desserts, nothing (if you let me remind you about availability of accessories, batteries, TOHs, etc.)

I think, this community have to listen to people like @Movetron to make Jolla better. Telling them to go away to play with Android iOS, calling them trolls does not expand this community, but reduces it. The less people support Jolla, the less chances Jolla will succeed.

@rburkhanov Well, that doesn't change a thing, does it? What I said above still applies. While for some reason you need to send unsupported file types vie BT, I have never ever sent anything else but JPGs from phone to phone. All other file transfer from/to my Jolla is done via Wifi, anyway. So, as I wrote above, I respect that others have an issue with it. But claiming it's a basic issue for everybody is just plain wrong. The so-called "aggressive OOM policy"... well, I hardly keep more than 4-6 apps open at once and I cannot recall the OS killing one of them because of memory issues. (I thought I had run into this kind of problem when my browser started closing itself every now and then a few weeks ago, but a re-boot fixed that. Wasn't reproducible.) Not being able to select text in the browser is a nuicance, really, and I stumble upon it twice a month. The easiest workaround then is to use a different browser, so it's not like I cannot use Sailfish because of this.

Again, whatever examples you come up with: Don't make the assumption that those use cases (however important they might be for you) are qually important for everyone. And again: If the issues you describe make such a bad user experience for you, why do you cling to this phone? Just get yourself another one that fits your needs.

@ossi1967 I could agree with most of what you talk, mostly our patterns of use differs and everybody needs other functions. But if you don't need something it does not means others can't complain they lack it, is not it?

What I can't agree is the point where you suggest me to leave. I have many reasons to stay here. If I don't like something it doesn't make me to dislike everything or even most things. If I don't agree with some of the people here (and you among them) — not in every single things, but in some of them — this does not give you the right and reason to tell me to go away.

Telling everything's OK never helps to solve problems. Telling people to stop asking for better and just go somewhere else would not help either.

I hope you getting the impression ossi suggested you to personally leave is a misunderstanding @rburkhanov! He made a general point, not pointing at you i bet! I really appreciate and respect your thoughts and know that variety of opinions is a great thing. I for my part only try to make some of the trouble understandable without finding to many excuses. And that is really hard if someone comes up with a multilayered question that can not have a sufficiant answer. Thanks a lot @ossi1967 for bringing points up i did not recognize. Brought me further in evaluating different usecases. I now see better that some of the "square wheels" may exist and bug others more than myself and helped me to respect that. THX.

@mosen OK, hope you are right, I would like this place to stay clear of personal offences. Sorry if I misunderstood you, @ossi1967.

That's what I try to talk about here, we should better listen to those who don't like something. If they are wrong, just help them to use their devices better: show them the ways to the functions they need, or help to find a workaround. If you are a dev, you can even write a script or an app for others to enjoy their Jolla. But if they really see a "square wheel" somewhere you don't see, may be it's time to slightly change your point of view and try to understand why this wheel looks "square" for somebody.

@rburkhanov OMG no - I'm not saying you should leave this forum. I said you would be happier with a differnt phone that does what you expect. Like you wouldn't go to the same restaurant over and over again if you knew you don't like their cooking. :)

You're right, problems need to be addressed, but posts like the OP above don't address problems, they just stir emotions. That doesn't lead anywhere. There is a thread here on this forum about the issue of changinging the default browser. Why not contribute there? Because it's too objective? I repeat the question I asked above: What good is this particular thread if the issues mentioned in the OP are dealt with elsewhere? What's the point of all this if "XXX doesn't work, please fix it" has been stated before?

@ossi1967 No, I don't want to buy another phone, not at the moment. Don't think you would manage to talk me into it ;-) Though, talking seriousely, I'm really close to it. I'm waiting for the tablet and the "big" OS updates coming with it. That would be a decision point for me. And it would be a great dissapointment to go somewhere else after 3 years of Nokia N9 (bought it the first day it was on the market) and nearly a year with Jolla (supported it from the first day it was announced and bought the next day it was available in Russia).

The point to repeat this "rants" is simple. It gives us (and Jolla, I hope) the feeling how deep is this or that trouble for some part of users. And how difficult it would be to find new users with this or that sort of troubles. If it's just one person saying this — you could really think it's a rant. If many people start to say this — it's a signal to start doing something, or you could start loosing your (not so numerous, let's be honest) users.

You are right in the point that people should not start a new question everytime, but better use search and contribute in an already existing question. But this is a more general problem here on TJC or any other forum.

@rburkhanov My point isn't (only) that people shouldn't start a new question every time; my point is that if you want something changed, discovered a bug or have a feature request, you should write one specific question for each, properly tagged and with a descritive headline... or, if it exists, vote for it, add use cases, give additional information. Chances that anyone from Jolla's team will even read this thread are low:

• None of the issues it mentions are addressed in the headline. Somebody responsible for Jolla's BT implementation will most likely not find out his work is being talked about here.
• Same goes for tags. No tags.
• The only "feeling" that this forum can give about the seriousness of some issues are the votes. The fact that you cannot easily change the default browser through some GUI setting has gathered ~130 votes so far. The one about BT file transfer has ~290. The fact that movetron is unhappy has gathered 19 votes so far - and it's still not clear what for. If you want something changed, vote for a topic, not for a persons' emotions.