[ POLL ] Deliver the Tablet - or Loose "a Burden" ? [answered]

asked 2015-12-18 01:46:07 +0300

launchpad
6731 ●123 ●146 ●164

updated 2016-01-28 18:27:41 +0300

In a historical community collaboration meeting on December 17th @AnttiSaarnio informed the jolla community about a successful securing of C-round fundings :

14:44:16 < AnttiSaarnio > We only got the financing confirmed yesterday, and we are now busy analysing different alternatives what to do with TabletGate

14:45:17 < AnttiSaarnio > We will have a board meeting after Christmas which is to decide between alternatives.

14:47:18 < AnttiSaarnio > Options are: refunding or to continue with tablets, but then even more delays are to be expected.

Complementing some community feedback to the decision-making : What would be your preference ?

Is it still essential for jolla's credibility and achievement of milestones to actually deliver hardware or now, as a software focused business to loose a hardware-related legacy "burden" and reimburse IGG backers ?

To what are you willing to accept / understand related delays ?

The question has been closed for the following reason "the question is answered, an answer was accepted" by launchpad
close date 2016-01-28 18:23:57.176361

Comments

12

Community? Mr anttisaarnio has left -and is still leaving- the tablet crowdsourcing community completely in the dark. So the first point of the board meeting should be: "Is this board willing and capable to work and communicate with communities, or should it step down to make room for leaders that can".

wim de vries ( 2015-12-18 13:42:51 +0300 )edit

5

@wim de vries ... that's exactly why I think the decision-making announced shouldn't happen without any community opinion in context. On the other hand you'll have to allow them some time to organize & gather.

launchpad ( 2015-12-18 14:04:28 +0300 )edit

3

And the message transported by this poll seems very clear.

lakutalo ( 2015-12-18 14:13:33 +0300 )edit

3

@lakutalo ... what I consider constructive in a way :)

launchpad ( 2015-12-18 14:43:21 +0300 )edit

11

@wim de vries. If I could downvote you, I would!!! - The community is in the multi-thousands, do you expect a one-to-one treatment (for ~200 € 'investment')? Sorry this does NOT scale at all. The tablet would cost 500 € plus just for communication alone... How s l o w would progress be if they started to listen to each and every mutually conflicting voice? - If you feel so left in the dark why don't you follow/join the mer-meetings?

chappi ( 2015-12-18 15:03:17 +0300 )edit

1

answered 2016-01-05 23:01:08 +0300

pawel

14895 ●231 ●341 ●376

i think we will get the intex phone instead.

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2

In that case specs should be decent (better than Jolla I)...

Jozo ( 2016-01-05 23:11:44 +0300 )edit

SFOS on Intex phone? It is next imaginary thing from Jolla? (I just kidding a little bit). Seriously - I'll believe when I see it with my own eyes.

cocovina ( 2016-01-07 13:36:19 +0300 )edit

@cocovina: be prepared! :D It seems they are planning to bring it to light @Barcelona MWC, 2016

On the other hand they planned it for Shanghai MWC, 2015 and then in December/January.

Perfect match with Jolla so far: never keep a deadline... :D

zlutor ( 2016-01-10 11:58:07 +0300 )edit

12

answered 2016-01-05 17:03:37 +0300

This post is a wiki. Anyone with karma >75 is welcome to improve it.

updated 2016-02-04 18:05:15 +0300

launchpad
6731 ●123 ●146 ●164

Jolla should show commitment and

Buy out the abandoned tablets from Taobao and have them delivered to the next backers on the list ! ( and safe a bit of pride & reputation that way )

By the time of writing the dubious ( maybe humiliating ?! ) auctions on Taobao have ( increased to 6 ) update February 4th: increased to 8 - the first one of them appearing at least since December 16th :

https://world.taobao.com/search/search.htm?q=jolla%20tablet

One offer seems to deliver even SailfishOS 2.0 fused devices :

https://world.taobao.com/item/525733298630.htm#detail

... proudly advertising it as IGG-funded - as if just and only funded for the Chinese fun consumer market.

Jolla 32GB tablets on Taobao stock :

https://world.taobao.com/item/525258878357.htm
> on stock: Jan 5th: 52, Feb 4th: 67

https://world.taobao.com/item/524680984224.htm
> on stock Jan 5th: 689, Feb 4th: 684

https://world.taobao.com/item/525505795172.htm
> on stock Jan 5th: 150, Feb 4th: 150

https://world.taobao.com/item/525246736574.htm
> on stock Jan 5th: 999, Feb 4th: 1496

https://world.taobao.com/item/525529259229.htm
> on stock Jan 5th: 1000, Feb 4th: 1000

https://world.taobao.com/item/525733298630.htm
> on stock Jan 5th: 150, Feb 4th: 169

https://world.taobao.com/item/526225588520.htm
> on stock Jan 5th: n/a, Feb 4th: 50

https://world.taobao.com/item/526204890251.htm
> on stock Jan 5th: n/a, Feb 4th: 34

Total on stock, Jan 5th: 3040 @ USD 150/unit > Buy-out : USD 456k - 20% rebate: USD 365k
Total on stock, Feb 4th: 3650 @ USD 150/unit > Buy-out : USD 547k - 20% rebate: USD 438k

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4

IMHO not terminating these China sales once and for all is an explicit insult against each and every IGG backer of the campaign. I held my horses patiently long enough until now.

launchpad ( 2016-01-05 17:04:44 +0300 )edit

Probably they also got tired of waiting for the money and are trying to minimize their loss.

andreibechet ( 2016-01-05 18:25:01 +0300 )edit

1

It is so disgusting.

@andreibechet : Quoting Mr Saarnio, December 17th 2015: "yes, nothing to do with Jolla, but it seems that our production partner from China started selling some tables which were already produced and in their stock. We are discussing with them that they would stop sales immediately"

Meanwhile there 6 auctions active on Taobao. They got more.

launchpad ( 2016-01-05 18:37:58 +0300 )edit

4

The hole thing is disgusting ... especially since we were kept in total darkness. And although everybody here yells for more details they have yet to come. Just very cryptic messages ... wow ... thanks. If Jolla will survive than they have to solve a serious trust issue.

andreibechet ( 2016-01-05 18:46:15 +0300 )edit

i didn't complain about nothing till now... but that srsly pisses me of. no answer on any email ever from jolla and my already paid device oon a chinese marketplace i don't even now where to click to buy it... is that what you meant whit people powered? srsly? da funk!

toba ( 2016-02-04 22:23:45 +0300 )edit

1

answered 2015-12-22 08:26:52 +0300

djhowls
233 ●7 ●9 ●17

refund. Jolla needs to put this to bed otherwise it will linger like a stale fart at a party

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1

Moo-Crumpus wants something to fill his LastuCase...

Moo-Crumpus ( 2015-12-22 14:46:59 +0300 )edit

10

answered 2015-12-21 23:56:08 +0300

This post is a wiki. Anyone with karma >75 is welcome to improve it.

updated 2015-12-21 23:56:08 +0300

Jolla095

2681 ●28 ●36 ●34

Cancel the Jolla Tablet and give us an A+ port of Sailfish to some existing Tablet.

Obviously community wants a Sailfish Tablet, but does it need to be a Jolla Tablet ?

How about Jolla porting Sailfish OS to some other recent Tablet.

What if Jolla would port Sailfish OS to some decent Tablet, which is currently in the market and in exchange Jolla community (IGG contributors) would settle in redacted refund ?

The community could select a couple of Tablet models, which would be targeted for an A+ port of Sailfish OS.

We would then have the desired Sailfish OS Tablet (with maybe upgraded specs), Jolla would have some easing in this tight financial situation and would not have to spend resources with warranty issues for years.

One major hickup would naturally be the lack of Android compatibility layer in ported Sailfish OS.
Too bad there are no paid app support in Jolla store, which might have been a solution to distribute Android compatibility app to non Jolla Tablet.

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Team up with Kosagi studios, they really got the knack on hardware.

marsch ( 2015-12-23 09:41:49 +0300 )edit

4

answered 2015-12-21 15:38:27 +0300

robinp
41 ●1 ●2

I think we should give them a chance to deliver the tablet. They have probably learnt a lot by the mistakes they have made. Wait to see what happens after the meeting!

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1

We do! That's why we've voted this answer up. :)

lakutalo ( 2015-12-21 16:16:30 +0300 )edit

According their latest blog "New Year’s Greetings from Jolla!" that's the outcome :

"[...] we are happy to say that we will be shipping an additional small batch of the Jolla Tablet to early backers during early 2016 [...] The bad news here is that we are not able to complete the production to fulfill all contributions. [...] However, you can be sure you will not end up empty handed. We might even have some positive surprises in stock for you. [...] feel free to speculate!"

Apart from a well-tempered "feel free", an invaluable "sure" and an inept "might" it boils down to their last chance - or their first one since resurrecting - to convince or perish.

launchpad ( 2016-01-05 23:56:33 +0300 )edit

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answered 2015-12-18 23:34:09 +0300

cemoi71

14264 ●310 ●434 ●439

updated 2016-01-25 11:50:41 +0300

Deliver the Tablet
if tablet is not delivered, sailfish could not be so much spread because of less user propaganda.
Owner could show it to their friends or family, and is one way that could help sfos to get popularity.

Furthermore, swear is swear, and is a good advertisement for a company to hold its swear, even if the moment is difficult. But naturally it should not put the cie in danger. In this case it should be well argumented...

Anyway for the igg investor there was a risk for having the tablet. And we should live with this
On the other side, for the pre-order one, that is an other story.
Ethically and legally it should be delivered for those who paid...
Sadly I was an igg investor, and i know and understand that it could not come (hope anyway that it will). I know that jolla will do his best, and i won't critic them

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16

answered 2015-12-18 23:05:50 +0300

DieUnwucht
371 ●3 ●5 ●8

updated 2015-12-18 23:16:52 +0300

Make sure there are reference devices provided with a pure SFOS that showcases Jollas intented platform

Jolla needs a reference platform for their supported device classes. That is: one Phone and one Tablet. The important characteristic of these reference devices is that the SFOS they are running are the plain SFOS versions, the way Jolla is thinking about the system. If these devices are build, supplied and supported by other companies does not matter.

The differentiation is, that licensing partners will always want branding, i.e. bespoke changes to the system. If all available devices are only provided by licensing partners, it will be pretty much impossible to recognise the original platform as such. Moreover will the community loose the little handle it has now to participate and contribute.

The tablet is ready for manufacturing and delivery and hence may be finished by the hands of Jolla as the last device being provided by Jolla directly. If a partner can do that same thing better and quicker, but under the rules defined by Jolla - that would be fine as well.

A future, updated reference phone could be delivered by establishing a partnership with fairphone and/or puzzlephone. These are hardware manufacturers with an interest to being the original SFOS oto their devices. This would allow Jolla to concentrate on the software and hardware adaptation and leave the device design, manufacturing and support to fairphone and/or puzzlephone.

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.... pace-keeping reference devices are required to showcase, proliferate and improve SFOS functionality & performance.

Continuous community / end-user feedback is simply not possible with the absence of real world devices.Tablet delivery realizes positive / advantageous development & engineering feedback for jolla. Think of that.

launchpad ( 2015-12-21 01:54:39 +0300 )edit

This hits on the nail. Jolla need to resolve this.

polarphone ( 2016-01-09 07:01:29 +0300 )edit

17

answered 2015-12-18 22:10:06 +0300

Stefanix

4518 ●55 ●71 ●71

Give choices: Refund or delivery for paying the difference to the new costs I really want to have the tablet, but part of my motivation to "buy" the tablet was to support Jolla. Supporters should get the option to get a refund or to get the tablet by paying the difference to cover the additional costs to revamp the production of the remaining tablets. Actually the tablets are "perks", not regular purchases. Not sure if there is even a right to get the tablet. Keeping Jolla alive is more important to me than getting the tablet. So give users an option to chose: pull back or pay the extra cost. Paying the extra should then be e regular purchase and the money should go straight to the factory.

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Another possibility is to change the tablet perk by a Jolla phone (or a part of it). A big part of my motivation to contribute in IGG was to support Jolla. Let's Jolla decide was is the best solution for the Tablet project. I'd love the tablet in my hands some day, I'd increasse my perk if the cost of production is higher, that would be my choice if possible. But I would also change the perk by the Jolla phone paying part of it, or other option in which I can further contribute. The refund could be another option (that I would not take).

I also think that giving some options to the IGG contributors is a good idea.

dchornillos ( 2015-12-19 13:09:53 +0300 )edit

I will gladly pay more for my tablet and rescind any rights I may have had for the originally advertised price.

halfnibble ( 2016-01-01 11:27:00 +0300 )edit

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answered 2015-12-18 18:38:24 +0300

dchornillos
166 ●2 ●8 ●9

In the case that Jolla decide not to go for the tablet delivery I would accept the change of the perk I did for the tablet by a Jolla phone. The price of the Jolla phone at the moment is almost the same than the money I put in IGG. In my case I also paid the Lastu case for the tablet, I love the Lastu case of my Jolla ;).

I already have a Jolla phone and I am happy with it. Of course I would love to have the tablet, but it would not be delivered I'd made the change and give a nice present with my second phone.

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I want a device with the fully supported and PURE SFOS, no branded derivative!

DieUnwucht ( 2015-12-18 23:03:59 +0300 )edit

No go for me. I have absolutely no use for another Jolla phone 1.

bilgy_no1 ( 2015-12-19 16:15:43 +0300 )edit

I didn't mean that everyone shall take this option. I will prefer to have the tablet. But just in case that Jolla decide to refund the tablet some of the contributors would like to choose among other options.

dchornillos ( 2015-12-20 12:17:07 +0300 )edit

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answered 2015-12-18 15:47:52 +0300

This post is a wiki. Anyone with karma >75 is welcome to improve it.

updated 2015-12-18 15:58:11 +0300

launchpad
6731 ●123 ●146 ●164

Issue time-unlimited vouchers redeemable on future devices & accessories. Even from Sailfish OS licensors.

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1

We don't know if there will ever be a piece of Jolla hardware again or if the licensors plan to target the western markets.

michel ( 2015-12-18 20:00:54 +0300 )edit

@michel .... well, sometime between now and the near future, they will have to offer something to survive. If they want to continue serving end-users, there will be no other option than running a shop.

launchpad ( 2016-01-06 17:58:27 +0300 )edit

indeed but as i said it doesn't need to be the western market. I wouldn't want a voucher for something that is probably not fully usable with my local network or that i may have warranty issues with.

michel ( 2016-01-06 22:51:10 +0300 )edit

Make sure to fully refund all customers that Wants it...then jolla can release other devices, vouchers.

The scam must be solved before many of us will support Jolla again. Many has already left Jolla for good.

Dave999 ( 2016-02-07 19:40:24 +0300 )edit

[ POLL ] Deliver the Tablet - or Loose "a Burden" ? [answered]

The question has been closed for the following reason "the question is answered, an answer was accepted" by launchpad
close date 2016-01-28 18:23:57.176361

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[ POLL ] Deliver the Tablet - or Loose "a Burden" ? [answered]

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The question has been closed for the following reason "the question is answered, an answer was accepted" by launchpad
close date 2016-01-28 18:23:57.176361