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[German translation] Grammatical error & typos in Systemupdate process

asked 2016-02-06 12:24:25 +0200

Alex gravatar image

While updating to the new SFOS early access release I noticed some mistakes in the german translation in the update process:

The wrong german translation

Das erfordert ca. 1.5 GB freier Speicher.

should look like this (including the suggestions mentioned in the picture written cursive):

Dies erfordert ca. 1,5 GB freien Speicherplatz.

Note: Germany is using a comma as decimal mark.

The wrong german translation containing a typo

Du kannst das Gerät währenddessen weiter benützen, [...]

should look like this:

Du kannst das Gerät währenddessen weiter benutzen, [...]

The suggestion for improvement is to add the word "aber" to the german translation, to make clear that there is at least one disadvantage in optimizing the system now, so that the german translation should look like this:

[...], es läuft aber unter Umständen etwas langsamer als sonst.

Update process

There is also one typo/grammatical error in the update screen specific for the early access release

The wrong german translation

Taalojärvi ist ein Qualitätsversion, [...]

should look like this:

Taalojärvi ist eine Qualitätsversion, [...]


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3 Answers

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answered 2016-05-20 12:17:21 +0200

Druide gravatar image

updated 2016-05-20 20:16:22 +0200

Thats not a question of like/dislike. There was a time we had somthing like "Hochdeutsch" which defines how something is written. No Question that there are people saying "benützen", and it's colloquial okay, but in written german it is wrong. That words which doesn't used in common every day language sounds "funnny" is normal, but I don't think this is the place for local patriotism. It works in the different way also, so what is "Paradeiser" if we talk about tomatoes? ;) "benützen" also has different meanings in different regions, "benutzen" is clear in it's meaning.

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We still have "Hochdeutsch". It is a misconception, though, that it is free of variants. Hochdeutsch includes variants in grammar ("ich habe gestanden" vs. "ich bin gestanden") and in wording ("Januar" vs. "Jänner"). It is highly unusual to prefer over as a reference in matters of German language.

ossi1967 ( 2016-05-21 10:29:42 +0200 )edit

Of course there are variants, but the duden says the same like in „be­nut­zen, süddeutsch, österreichisch meist, schweizerisch auch be­nüt­zen“ The point is the little word „auch“ - also. „benutzen“ covers the whole german speaking area (accept Swiss), „benützen“ just a little part of the german speaking countries. Here is a map where the different use of „benutzen“ (green), „benützen“ (blue) and „brauchen“ (red) is shown. I think a german translation should use the most common vocabulary.

Druide ( 2016-05-21 21:37:32 +0200 )edit

@Druide You realize you made a U-turn here? First you claimed that there is only one standard German and only onecorrect form (which is "benutzen"). This is what laymen at (falsely) claim. You literally wrote that "benützen" is wrong in written German.

Now, after doing some research, you see you cannot keep claiming this. So you finally admit there's not only one standard German, but several variants. You admit that "benützen" isn't wrong at all. (This is were fails. It does not say the same is, in fact, it says the exact opposite: On the claim that "benützen" is definitely wrong or a dialect word at best. states it's a standard Gemran equivalent to "benutzen". It couldn't do differently, as this is the word defined as correct by the responsible Austrian ministry. Actually, correctly states that southern German and Austrian speakers "meist" use "benutzen". It doesn't say "auch".)

So what do you come up with now? A claim that more people use one of the two forms, based on a private survey done via internet that doesn't give any figures on how many people participated an how the geographical attribution was done. Well.

(I wonder how people who only understand Teutonismen are able to watch "Der Bulle von Tölz" or read texts by Austrian authors. If such an innocent word like benützen makes you stumble, how do you cope with Samstag, Eierspeis, Faschiertes, heuer, Verkühlung or Semmerl?)

So what it boils down to is: Both variants are correct and it's still a matter of taste here which you prefer. The whole discussion, though, developed because the OP claimed that "benützen" was a typo (!!) and only northern german is "the right one". Both assumptions were wrong, that's why I corrected them. I really don't care which variant ends up in the UI. (Although I think "verwenden" as proposed by @into below is the most elegant of all.)

ossi1967 ( 2016-05-22 14:56:59 +0200 )edit

If you talk about German (de) -

It is simply about talking vs writing Or Standarddeutsch vs. Dialect.

You won't learn to write dialect in any school as there are standards:

kaktux ( 2016-05-22 15:17:01 +0200 )edit

@kaktux As you say, there are standards. Plural. If you read the Wikipedia article you linked to, it explains just that. Standard German has a number of coequal variants, "Bundesdeutsches Hochdeutsch" (the other article) being just one of them. So you learn "Bundesdeutsches Hochdeutsch" in schools in Hamburg while you learn "Österreichisches Standarddeutsch" in schools in Vienna. (Believe me. I went to school in Austria and we used a dictionary that defines official Austrian standard Germen as opposed to other variants of the language.) Mistaking the correct usage of one of these variants for a dialect is a typical mistake mainly made by German citizens who aren't engaged in linguistics.

The word you're looking for when you want to identify a type German that is spoken and understood (at least in written language) throughout all German speaking territories is "Gemeindeutsch". However, as this is only a small subset of German and incomplete in both grammar and vocabulary, it cannot be used as a superodinate kind of "Standard-Standard", not even a further variety of the language.

ossi1967 ( 2016-05-22 21:46:07 +0200 )edit

answered 2016-02-06 14:57:51 +0200

ossi1967 gravatar image

@Alex I don't know where exactly you come from, but some of the things you note here as mistakes a perfectly correct. I think it's great to document real issues with translation/localization, but it's a different thing to re-write the UI according to one's personal preferences in style.

  • Dies erfordert ca. 1,5 GB freien Speicherplatz vs. Das erfordert ca. 1.5 GB freier Speicher.

"Dies" is no more correct than "Das". Quite on the contrary, in this context it sounds old-fashioned and out of place. I would recommend not to change it. (The two words are interchangeable, "dies" being somewhat more specific than "das"… but also less common.)

"1,5" is certainly correct.

"Freien" is correct and "freier" is wrong, see this question already.

I see no reason to change "Speicher" to "Speicherplatz". Both translate perfectly well to the concept of memory or disk storage. "Speicher " is usually preferred because it's shorter.

By the way, both "Speicher" and "Speicherplatz" are wrong. It needs to be "freien Speichers" or "freien Speicherplatzes" if you want to be 100% correct.

  • Du kannst das Gerät währenddessen weiter benutzen vs. Du kannst das Gerät währenddessen weiter benützen

"Benützen" is not a typo but a perfectly acceptable variant. Look it up on People prefer "benutzen" in northern Germany, while in southern Germany, Switzerland and Austria the preferred variant is "benützen". (I don't use "benutzen" myself. It sounds irgendwie bochn.) While I personally could live with both, it's a bold thing to say it's a "typo". It certainly isn't an error as long as Jolla doesn't introduce UI variants for different regions of the German language area. :)

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...and note, Alex, it is always German translation :)

lakutalo ( 2016-02-06 15:19:12 +0200 )edit

Thanks for your comment. Sure as I mentioned just improvements - the 'improvements' are correct but I think my improvements are somewhat a matter of taste. The real mistakes are with the decimal mark, 'freien Speicher' and 'benützen'. I have never heard this word 'benützen' in such a context. You are right that 'benützen' is used in southern regions like switzerland but since I am of the opinion that northern german is the right one I am also of the opinion that 'benützen' is wrong. :D

I think Jolla should check it by themselves I just gave them the hint that there are some mistakes. :)

Alex ( 2016-02-06 15:29:16 +0200 )edit

Benutzen has got a touch of exploitation, so I don't like it either.

lakutalo ( 2016-02-06 15:32:31 +0200 )edit


I am of the opinion that northern german is the right one I am also of the opinion that 'benützen' is wrong. :D

LOL At least you're being honest. Made me smile. You know, though, that during the 1960/1970s, when Austria’s economy depended on German tourists a lot more than today, this attitude was the foundation of an antipathy that still lives on in younger generations: We needed the German Mark, but we couldn't stand the way you abused and tortured our language. It's still causes physical pain when I hear somebody say "lecker", "Schlagsahne" or "Aprikose" these days. :D

ossi1967 ( 2016-02-06 17:02:52 +0200 )edit

Not to forget about the Kartoffel. But you got to be fair, Ossi. Germans started to use "servus", "Semmel" and "Schmankerl" in return. :)

lakutalo ( 2016-02-06 17:11:30 +0200 )edit

answered 2016-08-18 15:19:32 +0200

zackbuffo gravatar image

updated 2016-08-18 15:20:20 +0200

First off I don't think localisation is - as someone said before in here - a matter of taste or even voting.

I assume we are talking about a DE-DE localisation and not something like "DE-BY" (don't know if that's the official abbrevation, but you get the point...) or something similar, right?

Implying this, I would consider the Duden as a major langauge refernece, and the Duden says at fist it's "benutzen" (without any reference or limitation to the north of Germany or whatever). The variant "benützen" is used in a subset of the German-speaking countries and areas (south of Germany, Austria and Switzerland).

But this is no either/or, like e.g. in the south of Germany it is only "benützen". No, in the south of Germany both terms are used. That's why (and according to the Duden) "benützen" has a lower significance as "benutzen" regarding standard-german (even though it is generally not wrong).

So I totaly agree with Alex it should be "benutzen", if the aim is to provide the closest (= most correct) standard-German DE-DE translation.

If we are talking about a l18n for some dialects, it's something compeletly different...

P.S.: What is a "Qualitätsversion"? I've never heard that term and btw. doesn't know this either...

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i agree - most common should be used.

qualitätsversion probably came from word-by-word translation. problem with translation is that sometimes you dont know the context the sentence youre translating is used in. thats why i always translate while using the app/programm i translate. i think it is meant as high quality version because of a lot of fixes and involved people. rather"qualitativ hochwertig" than the simple word-by-word translation.

kaktux ( 2016-08-18 21:11:29 +0200 )edit
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Asked: 2016-02-06 12:24:25 +0200

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Last updated: Aug 18 '16