Jolla : A Failure [not a question] [subjective]

Cyanogen does not exist anymore, does it? So they had a very good commercial concept I must say...

My LTE modem is working fine, and I don't need VoLTE. Most major problems are rather to be blamed on other players in the market, not Jolla.

I agree you Because of Low quality H/W The "Phone reboots itself" and "Network loses" became pain in the neck for Jolla, But I cant go back to Android as I am used to its UI. we all know That SFOS will Success If and Only If the gud H/W (Sony Xperia ) will be Well Integrated with the OS.

i upvoted but i want to say that basics aren't covered well by jolla, there is nothing new in the updates we get only improvements and security updates. stock jolla is utter crap unless you enable developer mode and try new things with patches.
in short: Yes, Jolla is a failure. Thanks rajuaa for this thread, atleast you said what you felt.

I can't understand those opinions. For me, Jolla still is a success. I have a Jolla 1 since it was available and it is still functioning well and I still get updates. For me, the OS is not comparable to all those major OSes as it is much better UI wise and much better in openess or say freedomness. I'm really looking forward to a commercially supported image to download for an Xperia device in order to use SFOS the upcoming 4 years on a slightly more modern hardware. Of course marketshare is still not notable and Jolla still suffers from being small and short of money but nevertheless they managed to create and support a real alternative to all those other vendors IMHO.

Now please, go on some linux forum and tell them that their stuff sucks cause they don't have significant market share on the desktop. Enjoy your death threats, bye.

As much I'd love to believe in Sailfish, I'm realistic and I know that this is a niche product, for people who can appreciate how cool it is and can live without having the latest and the greatest, like support for some weird tech that nobody outside India ever uses, or features that you might take for granted everywhere else (being spied on so you could get more curated ads, blocking phone calls).

But then, what you wanted to say is "jolla failed to deliver a mature OS in a few years tine with barely any resources", something that huge corporations like Google or MS couldn't get done either. Check old versions of Android. It's garbage.

Ever heard of Windows Phone/BlackBerry/Ubuntu Touch/Tizen? Not as big as Apple/Google = Failure? Jolla is still alive, I'm making a note here, HUGE SUCCESS.

I'd like to add that MS had resources to develop a nice mobile OS, it was even slowly getting traction and carving out a piece of that cake for themselves. But they still managed to screw everything up, releasing an OS that is so littered with bugs, most people ragequitted and switched platforms. Myself included. This is what I'd call a failure.

Your whole argument falls completely flat on it's face as soon as you mention CyanogenMod as an example of something good when it's an android fork that was discontinued last year. If you want to talk about failures, then CyanogenMod definitely was one when they got one hardware customer for their OS, who they then proceeded to screw over.

The only mistake or failure on Jolla side was/is IMHO: they still do not support paid apps in app store and seem to cowardly refuse to see the advantages behind it. The question here on TJC was upvoted many times and is almost as old as TJC itself. AFAIK there are many developers from Blackberry now on search for a new source of income that are not yet willing to switch to Android or iOS. With supporting paid apps, those could be attracted to SFOS, resulting in a growing ECO system that may lead to unecessary Android support.

I don't think being niche is bad really.

In the mobile OS mix there is space for just 2 giants on the top, and it is nigh impossible to try to wedge into that contest just as MS learned the hard way.

However the difference is that a huge company like MS needs to be in the top crowd to be profitable, they cannot survive in the niche. On the other hand, for a small R&D company with bright ideas and lean teams niche can be very good, if the structure of the company is small and agile enough there is plenty of profit to be made there.

In my opinion it can be a failure, because instead of finishing basic things, they play around with UI design things, I mean here the way from the incredible one handed phone UI in Jolla 1 to the tablet UI in Jolla 2. So, if Jolla have enough resources, I'm not sure anymore, if they choose the right way for bringing the system further. For me it feels a little bit like gnome desktop. Invent every time period all things new and throw the user back to an unfinished system, because they think all users are beginners or Andriod/Windows/IOS users. But I think, some users just use Jolla, because they want a smarter UI.

"Jolla has not done anything revolutionary"

NOBODY, has done anything revolutionary in terms in mobile development the last few years...

@emva, you got it right!

I'd even go so far as saying nobody has ever done anything revolutionary in mobile development, Full Stop.

Jolla has put a fully multitasking OS in a smartphone.

The cheap hardware is a market adaptation for India, nothing else. I'd gladly pay 500-odd euro for a good device. Android support is slowly slipping away, partly because it's getting outdated, partly because google is tightening up on device certification. Overuse of JavaScript on many web pages is slowly killing the stock browser.... Apart from that i have had absolutely no problems whatsoever, and as these things are not in direct control of Jolla, it is more bad luck than inability. Outliving winderp phone is extremely impressive. I'll spare you the downvote.

windows, blackberry, tizen and ubuntu touch = all are failures

jolla has no alternative for mx player, uc browser, android games, document editor, media editor (audio,video,photo), send anywhere, junk cleaner, x-plore/es file managers etc....

jolla only shines at multitasking and ambience..... nothing more.

i pointed at cyanogen os not because i don't know that it is dead, but because it provided a complete alternative to stock android !! it died not because it was bad, but because Google hunted it down !

by the way, sailfish multitasking is still inferior to maemo multitasking. at least that is what feel.

it is wrong if you say nobody has done anything revolutionary in mobile sector. because N900 and N9 were revolutionary. jolla is still a niche capturing less than 0.01% of smartphone maket after 4 years of launching its first device and so far it has released only two major models. jolla should concentrate to bring more and more app developers, make samsung/sony as its partners because they are the ones with best hardwares. it even can buy the Nokia trademark so that people will notice it !!

the worst thing about sailfish is that it it is not fully flawless with LTE network. there are severe bugs !!!!!!!!

@Rajuaa00 if you complain about missing apps like MX Player etc. you may be right. Jolla failed to attract native developers and this IMHO because they did do nothing for them (e.g. no development devices, no support for paid apps, harbour restrictions). On the other hand I'm always surprised, how much a more or less Stock-Jolla can do compared to Stock-Android. Jolla (or better SFOS) has much more than multitasking (which may be not as good as maemos but still good enough for a mobile device and probably the limitations come from hardware not from system itself). Jolla is free as in freedom. I do not need to "sell" myself to a big company. I have freedom to choose which services I want to use for synchronisation/mail/etc. I have FULL control over all services on my phone. That's what matters most (at least for me). What Jolla did better than nokia with N9/Meego was, that they supported Android apps. That was something I missed on my N9. Not because I really need Android, but because I wanted to be able to use some apps that would probably never see a native version. That is still true for SFOS. The only mistake (and I'm repeating myself) is, that Jolla seems to only concentrate on Android support allthough it is a dead end (as pointed out by others several times already). For me android support was only a way to fill a gap, nothing to rely on and I thought Jolla would to everything to build their own eco system but for now that is where they really failed.

i reallly hope Google to buy Jolla and bring gesture based multitasking UI exactly like the current Sailfish UI. I paid because I wanted to use a good multitasking UI, not because some group has a dream and I be like - “wow !! great idea ! let's support it !!” all of you get this in your head.

@naytsyrhc exactly !! aslo the LTE problem.

@Rajuaa00 I certainly hope not!

Selling out to Google would be a total disaster, it would undermine everything in SFOS that I need and love.

I don't care a toss about the UI, it is the concept of linux+glibc+mer that matters.

@Rajuaa00 well now it's clear. No further discussion needed. Go to google and complain to them about the bad UI and that you'd like to have as good UI as in SFOS. Do not complain here. As I pointed out: SFOS is the alternative OS for me and many others, because of its openess and freedom. I'm willing to except drawbacks for that. If you don't think that way and can live with google collecting your data feel free to leave Jolla/SFOS. But this is your free choice not a failure of Jolla. And BTW: I don't think that Jolla is only for geeks or indian market. IMHO Jolla/SFOS is the choice for many people like me that do love openess/freedomness (I'm from Europe).

@Rajuaa00 what's your problem with LTE, mine works flawlessly... Could be your operator is crap :)

why is everybody so arrogant to accept the fact thet sailfish ecosystem is so so poor devoid of good apps and full of craps !! why does everybody think that i'm alien to sailfish and not using it ?? i am using Intex Aqua Fish ! and i am pointing at both sides of a coin !! not what i want to see !! and if anyone wants to see my problems then please go through my profile to see the questions regarding LTE problem. 1= unexpected crashes of Alien Dalvik while using LTE. 2= unexpected frequent restarts. and i can assure you that both these problems are not based on hardware issues.

80% of people use android despite knowing that it steals personal data. you know why? just because they don't care !! they paid to utilize the productivity advantages. jolla cares about our privacy and that's good. but that's what blackberry was doing and see where it is today !! demolished !! privacy is not enough to bring people into using sailfish, just understand it.

@Rajuaa00 I'm not arrogant. I don't know about any other questions of yours. I'm just discussing this topic with you. And I think your arguments are not all right. I agree with some but in total I think Jolla is not a failure as you claimed. Some of your arguments/comments are very flat and provocative. That is why you are getting those answers. I tried to show you (by argumenting) why I think that you are wrong. I'm always clearly pointing out, that this is my opinion and that I accept that you may have another opinion. You mostly try to place your opinion as a general fact that everybody has to share. That's a problem too IMHO and does not help in a good discussion.

@Rajuaa00 And you did it again. Look at your claim demolished !! privacy is not enough to bring people into using sailfish, just understand it. I think this is bad style for a discussion.

jolla can't fully protect our privacy till it doesn't ditch android support completely or adopt the cyanogen os like approach. you know what i mean.

People who like to complain like OP (every once in a while we see them here in TJC) seem to be people who did not do their homework before buying their phone. In short, do your homework and buy a phone which suits you. If you fail at this, you can only blame yourself. I don't go around complaining how some random phone sucks, because I did not buy that phone and thus I don't care. If you don't like Jolla and their products, then stay away. If you happen to use their products, then give proper feedback how to make things better, otherwise you are wasting everyone's time.

i've already suggested. and i bought it because i came from symbian and android doesn't give such multitasking, at least yet. i'm still using SFOS. but found severe bugs regarding LTE. jolla is not doing anything regarding that. and what homework are you talking about? that i had to know SFOS is not fully compatible with LTE or what??

@naytsyrhc you just see what you want to. i used the word “demolished” for Blackberry. you didn't point that out ;)

Sorry @Rajuaa00 Saying "LTE on device xy with carrier yz does not work and I badly need it, please fix it and how can I help to give you information about what went wrong" or saying "Sorry guys but Jolla is too arrogant to accept its failure" is a different kettle of fish.

@Rajuaa00 don't get personal. I don't think I'm just seeing what I want to. On the other hand I could put that back onn you too. I know, that you used "demolished" in the context of Blackberry. I just said, that I think that you are using a bad style of argumenting.

after reformation, jolla said - failure is not an option. so my “jolla is too arrogant” phrase was the reply to that. and if you really want to help me then please try to answer my previous questions as nobody has been able to. go to my profile and try to answer those. please.. lets see.

blackberry os is actually demolished and if i say that, it doesn't make me unfit for any discussion. :D

i bought Intex Aqua Fish in December and posted the problem of Alien Dalvik crashes. and it is not happening only with me. there are a lot like me facing the same problem but still after almost 9 months and 3 updates, still the same problem continues. all my words are out of extreme frustration regarding that.

unexpected restarts are like pain in the ass and let me wait another year to see that solved though updates. if not, then i'll ditch sailfish for sure. i can live without apps but not without internet and while using 4G, the device just restarts frequently. you can't understand that because maybe you use wifi or 3g. and the alien dalvik crashes just fill the gap between the reboots. now tell me how can i use my phone? for privacy? no. i need the crashes and reboots fixed. just that much.

Well. I use a Jolla 1 with LTE and have no issues at all. So it's maybe (probably) "Intex Aqua Fish" related.

I use exactly the same phone, on LTE and I never ever experienced random reboots.

Android apps are a piece of crap, it's like if nobody ever tested them before releasing. You can't expect them not to crash in AlienDalvik, since they already do that on actual Android phones. Stop whining ffs, buy an iPhone or whatever.

I won't say SFOS is a failure. But it has to travel a lot become a success. I am using Aquafish for past 10 months. But I feel that the it lack many functionalities which even nokia non-smart phones has. We could not forward a message. We still need to copy and create new message for that. We cannot copy phone number from a contact. I am not comparing it with Android which basically spy you and I am not concerned about the the unavailability of spying apps (Although I am using some of android apps and allowed them to spy on me). If you consider Jolla as linux community, it needs to travel a long way to become matured. For example, I am stuck with proxy issue for long time and I have tried out different ways. I am not getting how a linux system would have issues with configurations. Even proper work-around is not available. If Jolla could focus on basic day to day operations and if it could increase "smartness" it would be helpful for users. As a normal user, I am happy with Aquafish H/W which provide good-enough performance at an affordable cost.

I have both Jolla sbj1 and Jolla-C (basically same as AquaFish) and also own port of SFOS on Nexus5. I also had Jolla tablet until I donated it to Coding Competition...

All are rock solid, I am very satisfied with the devices and OS.

Now, the reason I have no problems is surely because I don't use Android software at all, all the problems @Rajuaa00 seems to have are centered on Alien Dalvik. In my opinion it was a mistake for Jolla originally to include the android compability layer as it enables people to try to run software that is just not optimized for the device.

Dissatisfaction with Android on Jolla seems to be the main gripe for many people.

I think they made a mistake by trying to go to "mainstream" market so early, and by "mainstream" I mean those countries that everyone was dumping crap like Firefox OS to, hoping they'd buy it. This strategy has never worked out for anyone. Especially, since there is a niche of hackers, developers, FOSS enthusiasts etc. who would love to use it. There were quite a lot of people from all around the world who were having their AquaFishes shipped all the way from India (myself included), who actually knew what to expect.

Interesting thread, not sure how to vote. I love the software, however I enjoy 'playing' with the back end. Would I expect my wife to have a smooth experience? No, she struggles with Android and couldn't use IOS at all. My J1 was lost, I'd love a replacement phone. Unfortunately I don't believe that the current Sony model undergoing testing is sustainable, even if you have to start somewhere. More native apps would be appreciated, being able to use Android based apps does lessen the pain. I use my phone as a device to replace a number of other devices so having it able to function as I need is essential, therefore Android apps have become essential to me.

I hope that Jolla/SailfishOS continues, I will return once there is a device at a price point that is suitable to me.

most of the people using jio sim card in intex aqua fish are facing reboot problems in their device , its a 4g only network (jio) and jolla has done nothing about it. last week i found i cudn't send multiple files through bluetooth, before that i found that i cudn't copy my contacts to the sim card, before that i found that usb tethering is not officially supported, you have to enable developer mode and then install a package through terminal and list goes on. 5 years in making and they cudn't provide basic features. nothing new in updates, maybe sailfish os is a smart os but not the people behind the OS.

I bought my aqua fish on the first week when we could get it from Snapdeal, I think. I'd been following Jolla for a year before making the purchase and knew what to expect. Sure the hardware is pretty shitty but the OS is amazing. I do agree that there are a ton of problems with it, especially with 4g only sims (Jio). I also believe there are a lot of basic features that are lacking that should be tackled first for an OS to be an alternative. I love the OS but I still have to carry another phone since I own a 4g only sim (Jio) which kinda defeats the purpose of being an alternate OS.

what crazy guys like nthn here in this forum :-D

@nthn : people defecating in the streets in these parts of the world are poor, and making fun of a particular community, you are nothing but a fool and racist. nobody said anything about you. are you high ? you on belgian ale or something ?