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Why is it required to open an account in order to receive software updates?

asked 2014-02-08 21:50:25 +0300

weareunlike gravatar image

updated 2014-02-10 22:06:48 +0300

When I read the news about your phone, I was so excited that I ordered it immediately. The excitement lasted until I realized what I had to do to receive software updates (. In order to receive software updates I need to create a Jolla account. Why is that required? Is there a possibility to receive updates without an account? In my opinion this behavior contradicts with your principles: Foster freedom. We do not believe in walled gardens, we prefer the open sea. We want our products and services to free you to express yourself as you see fit, not lock you down to a view of the world imposed on you by us. Having to create an account does lock me down to a view of the world imposed by you. Please review your policy. Thank you. Edit 10.02.2014 I realized that my question could be interpreted for all kinds of software update. I want to clarify the point that I am only thinking of SailFishOS updates or Jolla firmware updates. Similar to service packs for MS Windows.

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You ordered you Jolla online, right? There's your account. Or you can choose not to use it, and use SW from e.g. https://openrepos.net/

Tanghus ( 2014-02-08 22:54:51 +0300 )edit

Thank you for the info and the link. I went there and couldn't find the SailFishOS System updates. Could you send me the link? Thanks again.

weareunlike ( 2014-02-08 23:21:45 +0300 )edit

Let me rephrase that: If you don't want to use your Jolla account - (which I believe you already have since you bought the phone online, but I might be wrong) - you can get community software updates from openrepos. Otherwise use your Jolla account to get system updates. Some of Jollas components are not free, and probably never will be. The firmware for mobile phones is ridden by patents and copyrights so it's not as "easy" as making just another Linux distro.

I really don't think there's a reason to feel your privacy threatened by having a Jolla account. Mine is just a username and a password.

Tanghus ( 2014-02-08 23:50:55 +0300 )edit

Oh and btw, you already have a Jolla account since you are posting here ;)

Tanghus ( 2014-02-08 23:52:12 +0300 )edit

I beg to differ. Creating an account from my device to the Jolla service does bear the risk of a privacy threat. I needed to provide not only a user name and a password, but also a birthday and an email address. These are private details, which I need to provide if I want to comply with section 5 "Your right to use our Services" of the "terms of use" which states: "You are expressly prohibited from doing any of the following acts: ...Providing us false or misleading information....

weareunlike ( 2014-02-09 00:24:33 +0300 )edit

4 Answers

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answered 2014-02-09 05:44:09 +0300

00prometheus gravatar image

updated 2014-02-10 16:34:13 +0300

I voted the question up. We all love our Jollas, and Jolla the company. However, let us not become blind to the truth: It is primarily an early adopter and nerd phone, and it is marketed on nerd values, none the least Free Open-Source Software (FOSS) values. Compared to the Android or iPhone flagships, it really has no place in the market. Even compared to the maximum bang-for-the-buck sweetspot midrange phones, the Jolla hardware lags behind. As we all know, the current state of the software is no where near as polished as what Apple and Google churn out. So what we have is a very promising enthusiasts phone, with lots of promise for the future, but it certainly isn't there for the mass markets yet.

Now I have seen my share of Apple fanbois, people that blindly accept and praise their favorite company, regardless of how that company acts, as long as the hardware looks beautiful. I really don't think Jolla can get away with the same for the audience they have! To believe in open source is a political state of mind, it is an ideal that has shown to be the most practical and powerful there is in the software industry (note how all still succesful mass-market OSs are based on open source). However, like all good political ideals, including democracy, it must be guarded and protected relentlessly!

No matter how much we love Jolla the company, we can not just accept when they behave wrongly, like the worst Apple fanbois do from Apple. We must hold Jolla to their image and style, make sure they remember that it isn't the company itself, or even the beauty of their products that makes us want to be a part of this development - it is the promise of a good phone that takes the FOSS ideals truly to heart that makes the Jolla phone better than anything else on the market.

It is very easy for a company to slip up; the marketers want some basic demographic data on their customers, and then you find yourself requiring that data instead of asking nicely for it as a voluntary request. It is us, the community, that has to keep the company true to its line. Not only because we love FOSS, but also because we love Jolla, and Jolla can not survive without those who believe in FOSS.

Please vote the question up! What Jolla is asking for is a small thing, easily circumvented by lying, but a protest now presents a clear line at an easy spot, before Jolla falls down a slippery slope to a place much harder to get out of.

tl;dr Jolla should ask us to volunteer the data, not require it

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Is this Answer an expression of nerd values to nerds, or anti-nerd values to non-nerds? BTW: which one are we, and who are you? Smiley in the end to show that also a not-so-serious interpretation of this inquiry is possible ;)

foss4ever ( 2014-02-11 04:01:28 +0300 )edit

If both interpretations are possible, so much the better - no one need feel left out! :-)

00prometheus ( 2014-02-11 06:11:20 +0300 )edit

answered 2014-02-09 18:51:23 +0300

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This post is a wiki. Anyone with karma >75 is welcome to improve it.

updated 2014-02-09 18:52:03 +0300

strnous gravatar image

Among others the Terms of Service everyone agrees with while ordering/buying Jolla states (chapter 4):

"Our Services are generally available to people of all ages. The following age limitations apply, however, to specific cases:

If you are considered a minor in the country you reside in, you must ask your legal custodian’s permission before making any purchases.

If you are under thirteen, you should not use any of our Services that require you to provide us with personal data. See our Privacy Policy for more information on how we collect and process personal data.

If the Service-specific Terms imposes additional age requirements, you must comply with those requirements before you can use the service in question."

At least this is clear official statement which, from my point of view, supports Jolla's requirement to create the account including the requirement for the date of birth. Such requirement protects Jolla against potential legal issues. Providing fake values imposes the responsibility on the user who provided them.

Anyone has always the choice not to agree with such requirement which can be expressed by not buying/using the device.

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Why ask for your birthday though? I've seen enough companies who just ask if you're 13 or older, or who just say that you shouldn't accept the service-specific terms when you're a minor.

Not accepting the requirement by not using/buying the device is a non option since all smartphone companies love to know everything about you, i know Jolla can be different and by simply asking if you're a minor or not they only collection information they need and nothing more.

StanceVonKofsky ( 2014-02-09 19:18:37 +0300 )edit

In fact, they only need to state on the page: This service is restricted to people over the age og thirteen, possibly with a checkbox, and that would fulfill the legal requirement (which in this case is, I presume, the laws against storing personal data on children). Optionally, if the data they store regarding people could in any way be considered sensitive, e.g. what porn sites you visit, they would have to prove age very carefully, including display of ID.

00prometheus ( 2014-02-09 22:29:19 +0300 )edit

If you buy Jolla in your local cell phone shop, I am pretty sure you do not need to agree to any Terms of Service.

ln ( 2014-02-10 22:53:54 +0300 )edit

@ln Surely you will do. Just look at the bottom of the box Jolla is sold in.

strnous ( 2014-02-10 23:03:30 +0300 )edit

@strnous The box says you need to accept some stuff to become a Jolla user. You don't need to accept it just to buy the phone.

ln ( 2014-02-10 23:11:26 +0300 )edit

answered 2014-02-09 18:11:05 +0300

corneliusg gravatar image

Sharing some personal data actually is the basics of forming any relationship. Without that, it is not a relationship. You can lie about your data, so lying is the kind of relationship you choose. Jolla asks you not to lie, which sounds fair to me, as I in return don't want Jolla to lie to me.

Remote control - you don't know me, but I know you and I tell you what to do - is IMO something, that should be left to the human-being - machine relationship. Among human beings it usually has led and still does lead to disaster.

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@corneliusg Thank you for your answer. I am not sure how your statement about Remote control relates to the question. Could you elaborate?

weareunlike ( 2014-02-10 22:11:29 +0300 )edit

@weareunlike My remark about remote control points to the contradiction in the question, that fully unfolds in @00prometheus 's answer: complete secrecy on your side, that guards over the policy and complete openness on Jolla's side.

corneliusg ( 2014-02-11 05:03:28 +0300 )edit

Not everyone want a relationship with a company as close as telling them your birthday. Many just want to buy a phone and get it working like it should (which it doesn't out of the box). The buyer gives money, Jolla gives the phone and updates so that it works. That's all.

00prometheus ( 2014-02-11 06:23:32 +0300 )edit

answered 2014-02-11 01:23:15 +0300

sauron gravatar image

updated 2014-02-11 01:24:45 +0300

hi, please tell me what is privacy in internet? Internet is a place where you make money selling people data, so... Jolla needs registration is true, but people who voted up this question i am sure don't have a gmail account neither a facebook or tweeter account... These kind of stuffs are dangerous for privacy, not the jolla account. if you are actually so worried about your privacy:

  1. close every gmail account or yahoo account
  2. close your facebook account and any other social network account
  3. change your /etc/hosts to make sure, for example, google analytics is
  4. do not buy anything on the web
  5. well maybe for you the best is not to connect to the internet at all

Please instead of reading every single word looking for something weird, look around you, in the mobile world everyone is trying to tell you what you need, jolla is asking us what we would like to have on our phone, this is very unlike. Bye

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Why should Jolla do bad things just because others do bad things? Seems like a bad reason to me! ;-)

00prometheus ( 2014-02-11 06:27:34 +0300 )edit
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Asked: 2014-02-08 21:50:25 +0300

Seen: 1,364 times

Last updated: Feb 11 '14