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Wrong German translations for Camera grid [released]

asked 2014-03-17 22:36:38 +0300

ossi1967 gravatar image

updated 2014-04-06 19:20:58 +0300

pvilja gravatar image

In the camera application, one of the new grid settings in is called "Raster von Dritten" in the German translation. I'd assume this is supposed to mean "of thirds" or something. The German words don’t have any real meaning at all, however, and may be read as "Third party grid" - if anything.

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The question has been closed for the following reason "released in a software update" by torcida
close date 2014-04-11 13:58:55.885439



The best translation i've found is "Drittelraster".

Moth ( 2014-03-18 22:56:35 +0300 )edit

More annoying than the wrong translation is the broken UI in the camera options!!

torcida ( 2014-03-19 00:39:24 +0300 )edit

the ui is off a bit, yes... ;)

egnat69 ( 2014-03-19 14:50:13 +0300 )edit

Antippen, um zu fokussieren (Tap to focus) can be shortened to Antippen = fokussieren (2 lines only instead of 3).

jgr ( 2014-03-20 01:58:33 +0300 )edit

@ossi1967: You may not have noticed that your question has meanwhile extended to a general discussion on the Camera translation -- which was very sensible because this way votes are not diluted but concentrated. That's why I adjusted the heading.

jgr ( 2014-03-20 22:31:08 +0300 )edit

10 Answers

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answered 2014-03-18 22:09:57 +0300

Cmdr_Zod gravatar image

updated 2014-03-19 19:51:05 +0300

German Translation (per Nikon D70s and Fujifilm S5 Pro Manual) is "Gitterlinien". Fujifilm S7000 Manual names them "Bildausschnitt-Rahmen"

I didn't find a specific word for the separation of the grid into three thirds.

I can't remember to have ever seen "Raster" in any camera manual, "Raster von Dritten" is not proper German.

"Ambiente-Raster" is also a bit strange, "Ambiente-Hilfslinien" would be better (but needs a bit more space)

"Lichtempfindlichkeit" is too long for one line and overlaps the information about the grid, its hyphenation is as follows: "Licht-emp-find-lich-keit". Please split it up into two lines

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"ISO-Wert" is a common term too...

Moth ( 2014-03-18 22:53:19 +0300 )edit

Hm, i could live with a smart cutting-algorithm that results in something like "Lichtempf...", too. :-/

Moth ( 2014-03-18 23:10:03 +0300 )edit

Also the selftimer is overlapping...

torcida ( 2014-03-19 01:46:20 +0300 )edit

"Raster" is a perfectly fine German word that describes exactly what the lines are. There's no need to change that. It's just the part "von Dritten" that's wrong. (Worse - it's not only wrong, it doesn't give a clue of what is actually meant.)

ossi1967 ( 2014-03-19 23:15:46 +0300 )edit

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riasmelo ( 2016-02-19 09:46:09 +0300 )edit

answered 2014-03-19 09:32:32 +0300

je gravatar image

There are more items unfortunate translated, overlap and consume lots of space especially in portrait mode.

  • Lichtempfindlichkeit is afaik correct, but far too long. I suggest to use instead ISO-Wert This term is used on my Canon digicam.

  • For the timer I suggest to use x Sek. Verzögerung instead of x Sekunden lange Verzögerung Should fit into 2 lines and Sek. is official abbreviation for seconds.

  • Last but not least the terms Kein Raster, Raster von Dritten and Ambiente-Raster. I suggest to use Kein Rahmen instead of Kein Raster. For Raster von Dritten I would use Gitternetz. And instead of Ambiente-Raster I would prefer Ambiente-Rahmen.
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Like most of those ideas... don't really see a differnce between Kein Raster and Kein Rahmen but i guess Rahmen would be the more common word...

egnat69 ( 2014-03-19 14:54:51 +0300 )edit

Translations are being checked. Another comment and proposal to review: "Raster is something which helps you to align things see: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestaltungsraster, a Rahmen is more a Frame around something." There was a proposal for keeping "Kein Raster" and "Ambiente-Raster" and changing to "Drittel-Raster". What do you think?

pvilja ( 2014-03-19 14:57:36 +0300 )edit

I was torn between Raster and Rahmen as I wrote my answer. Especially for the Ambiance option I was thinking more on a frame like a picture in a frame. You move the camera as long as your picture motif fits in the given frame. I think this is my personal taste and I am also completely fine with Raster. Also the proposal of egnat69 below is pretty good (kein Raster, Raster, Ambiente), probably the best. I 'd second that.

je ( 2014-03-19 15:44:33 +0300 )edit

@pvilja: This proposal is OK. The word "Raster" is absolutely perfect in this context, no need to change it (let alone for longer words). "Rahmen" would be plain wrong. The only thing that made me report this issue was the translation "von Dritten", which isn't only wrong, but leaves the user clueless about what mystic third party grid that might pull in. "Drittelraster" is a good choice (if it's short enough). Look it up on Google, it's used by others.

ossi1967 ( 2014-03-19 23:25:27 +0300 )edit

Hi, if ever, I would suggest "Neunerraster", since Drittel(s)raster implicates, that the photo is divided into three parts, which isn't actually the case. The photo is divided into nine parts, so, in my humble opinion, it should be translated as "Neuner-Raster" or "Neunerraster". Cheers - Roland

R.G. Sidler ( 2014-03-20 01:08:29 +0300 )edit

answered 2014-03-18 22:38:56 +0300

Moth gravatar image

updated 2014-03-18 22:39:44 +0300

A solution could be to use pictograms only. Well, they would have to be clear and unique but we could get rid of complicated translations in any language... Btw, i saw "Raster" in some well known Cam-Apps - so it shouldn't be so unusual... ;)

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The pictograms are there already, you actually tap them. The text should not be eliminated as it gives an additional clue what the pictogram is about.

jgr ( 2014-03-20 00:58:38 +0300 )edit

answered 2014-03-19 15:04:22 +0300

egnat69 gravatar image

updated 2014-03-20 19:13:51 +0300

jgr gravatar image

after thinking about it i'd go for the most simple solution... Drittelraster is actually used in german photography language but in general is not very common. Gitternetz or actually Gitternetzlinien is used more often in cameras but basically is the wrong term...

that said, i'd go for

  • kein Raster (No grid)
  • Raster (Thirds grid)
  • Ambiente (Ambience grid)

    ... plain and simple - unless you're planning on adding numerous grid options...

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That misses the whole point of denoting the grid of thirds as opposed to the ambience grid. More important, good translations shouldn't change the meaning of the original.

ossi1967 ( 2014-03-20 22:14:00 +0300 )edit

"More important, good translations shouldn't change the meaning of the original." A translation is an adaption -- always. This includes, that you even may have to change meaning (e.g. if the concept that works in source language does not work in target language). That's the reason, why machine translation is still unsatisfactory.

Keeping translations short is a common problem with software string translations. It often compromises.

jgr ( 2014-03-20 22:44:36 +0300 )edit

my idea is about simplicity as this also is the idea behind sailfish... using "grid of thirds" if no other real grid is used makes it more complex ... at least if translated to german... the only thing the user needs to know is that there is a grid, or no grid or an ambience setting... the on screen graphics (the grid lines) will explain the usage...

egnat69 ( 2014-03-21 09:37:36 +0300 )edit

@egnat69: Simplicity is always appreciated. In this case, however, there are 2 different grids and the only reason why we need a text at all is to make clear which grad is which. So in fact you could omit the word "grid" (if you run out of space), but need to keep "thirds" and "ambience" to allow that distinction.

ossi1967 ( 2014-03-22 09:33:51 +0300 )edit

i would argue that "Ambiente" is more of a setting rather than a real grid but that's why we should take a poll i guess...

egnat69 ( 2014-03-22 12:56:27 +0300 )edit

answered 2014-03-20 01:45:03 +0300

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updated 2014-03-20 12:50:32 +0300

jgr gravatar image

Although mentioned already but not yet available for individual voting:

  • Keine Verzögerung (No delay)
  • 3 s Verzögerung (3 seconds delay)
  • 5 s Verzögerung (5 seconds delay)
  • 10 s Verzögerung (10 seconds delay)

Please do not vote this answer AND the answer "Selbstauslöser but only one of them.

PS: You could even head it just "Verzögerung" (no indication of the length). This would be in line with the ISO heading (but not yet in line with the English heading).

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answered 2014-03-20 01:50:28 +0300

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updated 2014-03-20 12:48:23 +0300

jgr gravatar image

I believe, also well understood:

  • Selbst- auslöser (No delay, 3 seconds delay, 5 seconds delay, 10 seconds delay)

Please do not vote this answer AND the answer with "Verzögerung" but only one of them.

Similar to the light sensitivity, the heading does not have to repeat the numbers already given in the pictogram, i.e. a single heading can serve for all settings.

PS: "Selbstauslöser" = self-timer.

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answered 2014-03-23 19:03:16 +0300

pvilja gravatar image

Hi all, Here is what is collected now from this chain and updated to translations:

%n Sekunden lange Verzögerung -> %n Sek. Verzögerung Lichtempfindlichkeit -> ISO-Wert

Grid options: Kein Raster Raster Ambiente

If you feel there is some changes still needed, please comment.

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Either you use the ISO abbreviation ("s") or you drop the timer period altogether (as is done with Light sensitivity). But "Sek." is just stupid!

jgr ( 2014-03-23 20:53:25 +0300 )edit

@jgr: "Sek." is the one (and only) abbreviation given by the German standard dictionary Duden. (With or without the trailing period.)

ossi1967 ( 2014-03-23 21:10:56 +0300 )edit

@pvilja: There's no more language mistake in this translation. But for the grid options, there's a logical issue we can discuss in English as well. You propose "No grid", "grid" and "ambience". This is a bit like writing "Gentlemen" and "Toilet" to the doors of 2 restrooms... or labelling a button in the UI with "Button". It breaks the logic. I can tell from the icon both options are grids - but which kind of grid? Fifths? Thirds? Golden ratio? This is what the text must provide. (Plus, what will you do if a future update includes grids of fifths and a grid for the golden ratio? Call them all just "grid" as well?) I'd propose "no grid", "thirds" and "ambience" ("kein Raster", "Drittel", "Ambiente") if you need to keep it short and cannot use the original proposal.

ossi1967 ( 2014-03-23 21:22:10 +0300 )edit

ossi1967: http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/s_Sekunde

I ask myself: What gives you the authority to act as the translation pope?

jgr ( 2014-03-24 00:06:47 +0300 )edit

@jgr: I'm not even catholic. But I feel uncomfortable when you dismiss a perfectly valid abbreviation ("Sek.") as "just stupid". You're not being helpful. You may well argue for dropping "Sek." in favor of "s" if you find a reason for it (space constraints might be). But teaching the Jolla team that "Sek." isn't valid and "just stupid" is plain wrong. I cannot figure out what you're trying to achieve here. To support my point again, here's the link to the entry in the Duden dictionary: http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Sekunde#Bedeutung1a It explains that "s" is the symbol while "Sek." is the abbreviation. (Just like "a" is the symbol for a year, but not a common abbreviation.)

ossi1967 ( 2014-03-24 22:44:26 +0300 )edit

answered 2014-03-19 21:19:22 +0300

R.G. Sidler gravatar image

Rahmen und Raster are completely different things: "Rahmen" is a frame, "Raster" is a grid. They have nothing to do with each other. So, for the namely case, please use Raster, because Jolla isn't adding a frame around the photo to be taken.

Instead of ISO-Wert you can just write ISO, that's a common expression and not too complicated, since it doesn't mix two languages. ISO = international standardisation organisation (english) and "Wert" (german).



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answered 2014-03-20 01:40:36 +0300

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updated 2014-03-20 01:40:36 +0300

jgr gravatar image

Although mentioned already but not yet available for individual voting:

  • Lichtemp- findlichkeit (Light sensitivity)

Please do not vote this answer AND the answer "Bild- rauschen" but only one of them.

It should not be shortened to just "ISO" or "ISO-Wert". ISO is the abbreviation of a standardization organization. The Sailfish OS is not for photographers only. Just "ISO" (or even "ISO-Wert" for ISO value) would not give the user any information in addition to the symbols already there and a lot of misleading results in case of an internet search. "Filmempfindlichkeit" however is specific enough to give sensible results quickly.

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what about Belichtungsdauer?

egnat69 ( 2014-03-20 16:08:09 +0300 )edit

Because "Belichtungsdauer" (exposure time) also depends on the aperture. (With a non-adjustable aperture as with the Jolla device, exposure time would actually be in direct relation to the ISO value. However, exposure time is measured in seconds or parts of seconds, not as a unit-free value such as "ISO 100" it is.)

jgr ( 2014-03-20 16:19:37 +0300 )edit

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answered 2014-03-20 01:33:54 +0300

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updated 2014-03-20 02:03:02 +0300

jgr gravatar image

Uncommon but straight-forward:

  • Bild- rauschen (Light sensitivity)

Please do not vote this answer AND the answer "Lichtemp- findlichkeit" but only one of them.

The problem with this term: Originally it was "Filmempfindlichkeit" (film speed). At the times, when cameras took photos on film, probably most people taking pictures with these had at least a vague idea about this concept. Today, cameras are still referring to this concept (as "Lichtempfindlichkeit") but in reality, this only is a switch to level shutter speed and noise: The sensor is no more or less sensitive, whatever the setting is.

The advantage of "Bildrauschen" (image noise): Even non-photographers get the meaning quickly. It is obvious, that higher figures are not necessarily an advantage (you do not want more noise). Whereas the typical term used, "light sensitivity", implies that higher numbers would be something positive. Because the pictograms refer to "ISO 100" etc., photographers know the meaning without heading anyway.

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Asked: 2014-03-17 22:36:38 +0300

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Last updated: Mar 23 '14