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Question: Next jolla and other halves? [not relevant]

asked 2014-04-30 00:40:10 +0300

bilgy_no1 gravatar image

updated 2014-09-16 08:29:47 +0300

cybette gravatar image

I love the Jolla so far, and also the concept of The Other Half. However, I also feel that TOH possibilities are barely scratching the surface. Only with a wider user base and dev community will we really see some of the wild concepts come to life. That may mean we will not see them until the next Jolla phone comes.

So, I wonder: will the next Jolla support the same TOH dimensions and connection placements? Consistency in the standard gives developers confidence for the longer term. And as a user, my purchase of a whole range of TOH's can migrate to the next phone. OTOH, it would limit design freedom for the next phone. A somewhat bigger screen could possibly fit the current dimensions, but I guess 4.7" would be the limit.

Whay do you think: keep the current form factor and TOH standard, or start from scratch for the Jolla 2?

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The question has been closed for the following reason "question is not relevant or outdated" by JSEHV
close date 2016-02-01 19:45:43.537689

Comments

14

I think that TOH should fitt to any Jolla with TOH support.

oyviaase ( 2014-04-30 01:03:16 +0300 )edit
4

me too. they are not cheap XD

Claudio Maradonna ( 2014-04-30 02:05:39 +0300 )edit
4

i thought that was the whole point with Jolla, consistancy? So, fear not :D

mosen ( 2014-04-30 02:58:42 +0300 )edit
5

I disagree. The current design is not the best. And there isn't a huge ecosystem in order to maintain dimensional compatibility. The J2 must be a far more elegant and well thought phone.

ApB ( 2014-04-30 12:17:24 +0300 )edit

@ApB I agree somewhat with you. I'd like a screen that's a bit bigger: 4.7" - 5". This might fit in the current form factor, although 4.7 is probably the limit.

My question was triggered by the One+ announcement. Jolla could easily make a very appealing phone, just asking that company to design something high end in specs, and Jolla would just focus on the OS. However, that would mean ditching the current TOH setup.

Not sure what would be best business wise...

bilgy_no1 ( 2014-04-30 17:42:35 +0300 )edit

11 Answers

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32

answered 2014-09-25 21:52:48 +0300

piloti gravatar image

Personally, I am 100% fine with the size / ratio of the current Jolla. If / when new device comes along I hope it is the same size / shape as the current, so my three TOHs will work / fit.

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100% a free with you!!! want the same too.

cemoi71 ( 2015-06-16 01:28:15 +0300 )edit
18

answered 2014-09-27 12:37:08 +0300

bennypr0fane gravatar image

I for one would be very disappointed if the next Jolla phone wasn't compatible with existing TOHs. TOH development has only just gotten up and running and the best stuff is yet to hit the market:

If you don't count production batches below a few hundred pieces, we've seen basically just colored covers so far. However, developers like dirkvl have already gone to great lenghts to breathe life into the possibilities of the TOH concept. It would be a damn shame for their efforts to go to waste, and for consumers to barely start enjoying advanced features of other halves, when these will be outdated with a new device a few months later. Hence, maintaining backwards compatibility in new devices and OS releases would be a top priority IMHO.

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Comments

4

Would you be OK if jolla breaks compatibility BUT cooperates with TOH devs so you can have functional TOHs ready upon jolla 2 release?

ApB ( 2014-09-27 14:00:22 +0300 )edit

@ApB nor reason that jolla break compatibility, they are involve in development of an os. They don't want produce smartphone on mass. They must do it to present the potential of their os, that is needed. without hardware, they can't show the best of it. So they will do further in small amount, like this current one, and will be compatible with the old one. otherwise it make no sense. and if people want a bigger, there will come from an other smartphone producer. what is the problem on it? maybe i'm wrong, but seems to me more logic...

cemoi71 ( 2015-06-16 01:35:02 +0300 )edit

To complement a great OS (which i trully believe SF is) you need great hardware to go with it. And IMO the current design -industrial design not the chipset and stuff- isn't one. Hence my view that jolla should break form factor compatibility.

ApB ( 2015-06-16 01:48:20 +0300 )edit

@ApB Ok... i'm not sure to have understood what you mean with industrial design, could you please give more details? i'll be interested to know in which part on detail that you have in mind.

cemoi71 ( 2015-06-16 09:40:05 +0300 )edit

@cemoi71 By design i mean the shape of the plastics/metals/glass that make the phone. In short my gripes with the current design are the size of the body (its big), the square edges and the pointy corners. All these make it feel bad in the hand IMO.

ApB ( 2015-06-16 11:38:45 +0300 )edit
11

answered 2014-11-03 02:29:50 +0300

hook gravatar image

After talking with some TOH devs, I heard some good arguments (and reasons) why Jolla/TOH design should change in the near future. If there are good technical reasons to break compatibility in order to make TOH development better/easier/moer powerful, it would make sense for that breakage to happen between Jolla 1 and Jolla 2. That is as soon as possible, so TOH devs and owners need to suffer less due to not too many TOH in the market yet. If such a change would bring us more powerful TOH, I think it would be a good idea

Of course, if there are no technical reasons to fix it, there is no need to break it ;)

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@hook - What changes are suggested for OH2? ...just being curious.

vattuvarg ( 2014-11-04 20:43:56 +0300 )edit
1

On irc://irc.freenode.net/#jollatohhbd wazd mentioned two modifications:

  • move the camera where it was in initial builds (i.e. far in the corner), to make it easier for TOH and more room for it;
  • make the TOH stick to the first have with magnets and alignment hooks (instead of snapping hooks) in order to save on space and therefore leaving more room for TOH.
hook ( 2014-11-04 22:49:39 +0300 )edit

Thanks for letting me know, @hook.

vattuvarg ( 2014-11-04 23:03:30 +0300 )edit
1

hmmm... better don’t mean incompatible... Sometimes after a while reading comments from other people, i don't find their arguments realistic, distorted from their need and fantasy. Jolla have more interest first to try to hold the compatibility. a redesign costs really a max of money. During the redesign you must have hardware & software dev who will working on a system which don't bring money at the moment, and the next x month/years. Your teams on the current device are reduced, because the other work on the new one. And then when it comes. your dev are splitted between the two device Business/support. Usually firms exploit their device potential at the maximum in more than one device generations. Then they change it, because they have earn enough investments. Her ewe are just at the beginning. If they break it, i think that it will for a really normal and casual design...

cemoi71 ( 2015-06-16 01:52:04 +0300 )edit
9

answered 2014-09-26 16:05:04 +0300

I believe the Jolla 2 could be a bit smaller but with the SAME size of the SCREEN. This can be achieved by reducing the edges of the screen which right now are 4 mm on sides, 16 mm on the lower side (this is huge actually) and 14 mm on top (also huge).

So by making the sides 3 mm and the lower-upper edge about 8-9 mm, the device could look more slick and be easier to handle. I guess a combination of the old N9 sizes and screen shape and the current Jolla could be good.

Under no circumstance the Jolla 2 should get bigger because it is already very big.

Regarding the backwards compatibility to the TOHs, I believe the phone insides should get thinner and there should be more room for fitting electronics into the TOH. The fact that the current TOH does provide little to no space where to fit additional electronics, forcing the TOH developers to increase the thickness of the device in order to build any usable and interesting TOHs, I believe it is not a great thing. Also it lowers the buyer's appeal for a TOD that increases the thickness of the device.

Jolla should contact TOH manufacturers that plan to release any TOHs any time soon and see if they could sort it out with the next phone design.

By the way, is there any TOH commercially on the way? Because except for the TOHs on the Jolla store, I could not find any for sale, and it will be soon a year now since the Jolla was first launched.

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Comments

1

Yeah, the problem of the TOH thing is that it makes the phone quite thick.

clouseau ( 2014-11-03 19:24:31 +0300 )edit

https://together.jolla.com/question/76202/list-other-halves/ One can gladly add to the list...

Bokkie ( 2015-05-09 14:51:13 +0300 )edit
5

answered 2015-06-15 22:30:16 +0300

Stefanix gravatar image

updated 2015-06-16 07:17:54 +0300

Ditch the TOH concept as it is now. There is no practical application yet and probably will never be. A monolithic design like we know from the N9 or Lumia 920 would provide for a dust proof and stable casing, improving look and feel. There could still be an interface for extensions using an I2C interface in the form of slighly immersed pins somewhere on the shell plus NFC. There could be notches for clamp-on extensions. To market those plastic covers as "TOH" just because they have an NFC chip is ridiculous. Don't limit the design of the next Jolla phone, if there will be one, by keeping it TOH compatible! The next Jolla should not be targeted to freaks like us here, but should appeal to a wider spectrum of potential buyers.

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Comments

1

If that concept would at least be properly suppoted by the manufacturer itself. I mean, something like the full rainbow of available colors and ambiences for any possible mood / style. But instead, even at the Jolla webshop there is just ONE (!!!) - yes a SINGLE ONE !!! other half available for sale which is not even ridiculous but a groundbraking shame and the very proof to the total failure of this concept. Which once was advertised as the killer feature and now completely abandoned even by Jolla themselves. This I assume already fully approves your suggestion and I am almost conviced that at Jolla HQ people now are working on a more "current style" approach reflecting the latest developments in monolithic designs and have dropped the Other Half concept for good.

xenoide ( 2015-06-15 23:28:01 +0300 )edit
2

Agree Stefanix, it was a gimmick that never took off as expected. Well some may argue that there are lots of exotic projects like TOHKBD, LED backs and such, but most people probably want something that is way more supported from the original manufacturer, Jolla than it has been. Some fancy colors and some wooden backs (most of them constantly out of stock BTW), well for such a concept they should have done something more than that.

Standing post and waiting for chipping in money in a crowd-funded project then waiting X months for something that MAY show up is not everyone's cup of tea.

I put in an inductive charger into mine, well its not really original or unlike these days.

IF there will be a second Jolla (which I for the moment doubt) the best thing would be to keep the removable battery option. But this time of course, it would be nice to be able to BUY batteries.

Larswad ( 2015-06-16 10:48:24 +0300 )edit
3

answered 2014-09-26 21:19:43 +0300

Macilaci457 gravatar image

TOH possibilities are barely scratching the surface

The possibilities are nice, but hardware extensions are not the best solution to provide functionality, and are against people's wish to keep dimensions (mostly thickness) low. I too believed in TOH hardware but the current design is hard to make (even 3D print) and hardware is better included in the phone.

As I see it now, the TOH should keep four features:

1. colors (lots of)
2. recognition by the phone (see below)
3. easy production
4. low price

I imagine TOH sold with software (thus recognition is a must), that installs the app when applied, and add more fashion choices! I would rather change TOH for fashion, than for adding a slot, or a hardware, and more thickness. There is nothing wireless connectivity wouldn't be enough for, and there is already Bluetooth 4.

To achieve the above (mainly point 3.) I would accept an incompatibility with my Jolla, but it would possible to achieve it all with the current version if Jolla could provide TOH mass production and customization options for companies.

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Comments

3

"and are against people's wish to keep dimensions (mostly thickness) low." - well, the new Jolla can be designed to leave more space for the TOH electronics than it leaves now. If this happens, the TOHs will not increase the thickness of the phone anymore since TOH developers will have 1-2 mm under the TOH plastics where they can fit their stuff.

lhorga ( 2014-09-26 23:32:33 +0300 )edit
1

The whole TOH concept will turn out to be a dead end. You can esily attach (fix) any device on a phone and use Bluetooth for communication between them. The only point about the TOH is that it makes Jolla look unique. Paying 35 EUR to Jolla to have a different TOH is an absurd to me, same as attaching a keyboard that will turn it into a sandwich. All the missing hw features (wifi charging, qwerty keyb...) can be built into the phone for the same price amount that I bought my Jolla for at the start, and have it packed with a thin keyboard like tha beautiful E7.

clouseau ( 2014-11-03 19:33:55 +0300 )edit
2

answered 2014-09-26 15:01:34 +0300

c.la gravatar image

updated 2014-09-26 15:02:18 +0300

In general, making a bigger size phone would mean to ditch the current TOH. But can't you just make the bigger phone compatible making some "trenches" at the center of the big phone to accommodate the old TOH and maybe a compatibility TOH to cover the back area of the phone not covered by the TOH?

The trenches wouldn't be as deep as the entire phone, so wires can go from one side to the other.

You would then end up reserving some valuable phone volume for the toh compatibility trenches, but it may be an acceptable tradeoff to not disappoint (very valuable) Jolla 1 customers.

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Comments

3

the current size of the phone should be able to accommodate a 5 inch screen, no need to change dimensions.

pmelas ( 2014-09-26 15:21:00 +0300 )edit
6

Yeah but the problem is that mother nature is kind of slow and our hands won't grow in the next 6-7 months. The current phone is big. And if its not big for you give it to a woman and tell her to use it with one hand.

ApB ( 2014-09-26 15:57:42 +0300 )edit

ApB You are right, women can't really use the Jolla because it is too big for their hands. For me it is fine even though I would prefer a slightly smaller device (BUT with same screen size). The edges can be done smaller in the next device so the device will get smaller keeping the screen size. Or if Jolla keeps the current dimensions, they should increase the screen size and make smaller edges.

lhorga ( 2014-09-26 16:17:03 +0300 )edit

I think if you reduce the size of the bottom edge you can get to have a 4.7 inch screen without increasing the size of the phone

devin ( 2014-09-26 16:17:26 +0300 )edit
1

LOL. I guess all the girls I see with 5" or larger phones must have gigantic hands, then. South East Asians (men and women) tend to have considerably smaller hands than people from Western Europe, and yet 5.5" and 6" phones are more popular there than anywhere else in the world. I honestly get the impression that half of you have never even held a phone larger than the Jolla, or that those concerned that smaller bezels will lead to a non-functioning phone must never have used a touchscreen device before the Jolla ... Sharp's latest Aquos phones essentially have NO bezel and have ridiculously accurate touch.

midnightoil ( 2014-09-26 20:50:58 +0300 )edit
2

answered 2014-09-27 15:41:10 +0300

Marsselo gravatar image

Will be good with have the TOH compatible, but I think the new Jolla device can have two (or three) more pins to TOH and make a USB OTG, this way we can make USB TOH with more speed and possibilities! And Jolla can add this feature and still compatible with old TOH.

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1

answered 2015-05-09 13:01:54 +0300

simo gravatar image

If the concept will change, and TOH's from the first Jolla phone model don't fit into Jolla2, I'd like to see that Jolla can offer us an adapter for Jolla2 which enables using our beloved TOH's also on their next and future phone models.

Pros

  • No need to invest again for special TOH's, like keyboard or Solar charger
  • Developers could keep on designing and building TOH's also with the original concept
  • This would serve the backwards compatibility in general, showing that a company respects their customers

Cons

  • Adapter would has it's own thickness in between Jolla-2 and original TOH's, adding to the whole
  • There would be 2 different type of TOH's in the markets
  • Possible challenges in design, depending on the TOH-2 concept
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0

answered 2015-05-09 10:05:11 +0300

Nokia7710 gravatar image

Jolla TOH community could also joins Nexpaq community, as they provide a sort of ARA case for Iphone 6 or Galaxy S6 with optional modules (e.g. battery , amplifier, flash , Sdcards) which would be available on a store. They would also provide a developper kit. With a Nexpaq TOH, one could get a multifunction TOH in one TOH.

Ther project is now running on Kickstarter : https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nexpaq/nexpaq-the-first-truly-modular-smartphone-case

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Nexpaq surfaced pretty exactly same time as did Fonkraft, the modular smartphone, which also held exactly $50k target as well. While Fonkraft was deemed to be unrealistic if not a scam, with it's release dated to this October? Fonkraft's Indiegogo-page has disappeared while Nexpaq's Kickstarter flourishes, for how long I wonder.

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=95434

tuotantoarvio ( 2015-05-09 19:35:12 +0300 )edit

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Asked: 2014-04-30 00:40:10 +0300

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Last updated: Jun 16 '15