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Jolla Radar - An unlike Suite

asked 2014-05-07 14:29:41 +0300

chemist gravatar image

updated 2015-02-01 12:48:43 +0300

Driven by several ideas and needs I read in tjc questions over the last couple of days I came to the idea of writing a requirements specification for a Suite - main goal replace MTP. Yes I know there is already talking about Jolla Docks but I expect it to be Win/Mac only like it always is... so why not have a on the phone based standalone-leave-alone Suite?

Implementation is a whole other thing. I want to start another argument as I will be very unhappy with being forced to use services like younited when I could actually just send files via BT.

Basics

Connectivity

  • USB Networking - the device has to present itself as a network device without the need to pull in 3rd party drivers (important for windows to work).
  • WLan
  • BT Networking - needs to be OTF std protocol

Export

  • Filesystem
  • Controls
  • Settings
  • Screen
  • Internet

Frontend

  • Filebrowser (upload/download files/folders, limited to android, sdcard & /home/nemo/ with(out) .dot files)
  • Mediaplayer (remote)
  • Messaging
  • Calendar(manager)
  • Gallery
  • Videoplayer
  • Accountmanagement
  • Screen remote
  • Backup&Restore

Advanced

On the phone side

  • security measures (ssl, password protection, guest area)
  • remote features - {dyndns (afraid.org, noip.com, etc), location-upload/tracking}
  • lightweight webserver
  • HTML5
  • USB/BT tethering opens browser on client with login page
  • no-flash or other proprietary software needed (no MTP or other BS)
  • guest-account (shares, CIFS)

On the Desktop/Notebook side (uhh what I thought this is a standalone, sure it is... read on!)

  • backupdaemon
  • tracking trigger
  • no-java, no-python
  • bare-gui for settings (path for location-tracking/backups etc, dns/IP to look for, ssh-key-management, credentials) everything else needs to go to the browser as we do not want anything being installed ever if backupdaemon and location tracking are not to be used remotely

tbc

Update: 2014/11

With Jolla Tablet scheduled for next year I feel like this is going to be outdated before anything is on the horizon already. We can cope with limitations on our phones but a device that is used at home by most $user it is very important to have a seamless user experience. Therefore Jolla Radar should not be limited by my idea of remote access but shall also evolve to an integrated system. The tablet should have control over the phone and the phone should have control over the tablet too. Second screen, sync content, independent multitasking and probably also multi-user experiencefor homes with more phones than tablets. Read further @ https://together.jolla.com/question/63867/request-jolla-tablet-idea-jolla-tablet-jolla-smartphone-pairingcommunication/ ! In general, the tablet will have the same shortcomings when it comes to home entertainment and wlan-only user-experience like the phone (cannot send files, share folders, sync playlists, dlna, upnp... with stock system or very limited with third-party apps).


As MTP is not working for people there needs to be an alternative asap, I for one can only access my phone at work if I ssh to it over company wlan as I am stuck with winXP for now, no working driver and no sdcard-reader at hand. I cannot even send files over BT and a guest-account to Radaror CIFS/Samba share would come very handy.

For reference please see:

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Comments

5

Do we have any indication that jolla is actually working on a cross desktop solution?? Their resources are quite limited. We have seen apps like sailserver but they are not fully working right now. And things like avahi (that will make it easier) are missing.

I'd like it if someone from jolla commended on this. And maybe give us a preview of what they have in mind.

ApB ( 2014-05-07 15:54:27 +0300 )edit
1

I was about to say the same thing as ApB, as far as I know there hasn't been any word from Jolla regarding a PC suite, all that has happened so far is community speculation over what it should do and what its name should be (if it is ever going to exist in the first place).

nthn ( 2014-05-07 20:06:41 +0300 )edit

@ApB@nthn you both did not read through it well enough, I am asking to build an on-devicestandalone solution or actually I am giving requirements. Nothing about a cross-platform suite or do you call a backupdaemon and tracking logs a suite? The idea came from the need for people or better $users of having an alternative to MTP.

chemist ( 2014-05-07 21:16:24 +0300 )edit

I meant something that will work without installing stuff on your computer as it has been proposed by the community. We don't have any indication that jolla is working on something to replace the (problematic for many people) MTP solution it uses now. Hence the question.

ApB ( 2014-05-07 21:46:47 +0300 )edit

I like you idear , right now I use bitsync for andriod and it works ok,so a deamon like that could be neat !!

Mr.Thumb ( 2014-05-07 22:17:56 +0300 )edit

4 Answers

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6

answered 2014-05-08 15:43:41 +0300

updated 2014-05-08 18:34:39 +0300

One possible solution without reinventing the wheel could be to make use of an open source server management tool like ajenti (http://ajenti.org) and extend it with phone specific plugins, actually it would already have a number of things you have in your requirements

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Comments

2

good idea, would you mind rephrasing to "... wheel could be to make use of an open source server management tool" as ajenti is to be licensed

Ajenti is licensed under LGPLv3, unless any of following situations takes place:

  • For hosting businesses
  • When provided as a part of paid hardware product
chemist ( 2014-05-08 18:23:42 +0300 )edit

modified as per request

TopStreamsNet ( 2014-05-08 19:46:15 +0300 )edit

@TopStreamsNet late answer here to from me... does it really a nice solution, when jolla want to license their os. i don't think that they would like to pay license to provide this solution too. Jolla want to differentiate itself in compare of other actors, with its own philosophy and design...

cemoi71 ( 2015-01-30 12:25:28 +0300 )edit

@TopStreamsNet because of licensing term ajenti is impossible to be integrated on the sailfish. it may be only port as third part...

cemoi71 ( 2015-02-20 10:51:27 +0300 )edit
1

answered 2014-06-03 18:25:21 +0300

ApB gravatar image

Jolla confirmed recently -in a community meeting- that they are NOT working on an webserver on the phone/Over the air/browser based/whatever solution.

However they guy -don't rememeber the name and i am lazy to look in the logs- who answered it said that he was willing to help guide anyone in the community that will uptake the task of creating something like that.

So far we have sailserver by mike7b4 which is not there yet and someone was working on samba.

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@ApB it is a really late answer from me, but it never to late for making things good. sailserver is a tiny server as the developer described, is really reduced on functionalities. the need here is a more powerful solution like airdroid. Furthermore mike7b4 as made no further update or evolutions. maybe he is with the state of the app happy. And has you told, jolla are NOT working on it, that's right. because the interest of the community is currently not so strong on it. But it could be changed. Jolla has a lot of time demonstrate that they are really aware on their community...

cemoi71 ( 2015-01-30 12:22:07 +0300 )edit

Doubt the status on this changed. Jolla is concentrating on SFOS 2 and the Tablet (which BTW will face the same issues). Most (or at least many) of the community people are geeks familiar with ssh and stuff like that so this is probably one of the reasons noone stepped to fill in for jolla.

ApB ( 2015-01-30 18:04:56 +0300 )edit

@ApB and ? what is the problem? jolla bring step per step the functions that are needed. That means it is not a problem that OTA-suites tools are not on foreground. The time will come that OTA-apps becomes the main focus. That don't mean that we don't need to speak about it.
On the contrary, it lets us more time to collect votes for making this function on a higher level. don't you think so?

Don't forget, jolla concentrate itself on the most interesting aspect of the community. Imagine if the vote counter explodes, then could be by review their sprint plans, could be put on a higher priority level. Who can tells, how is made the future.
I think, we don't have to keep in charge the responsibility of the jolla-team-dev, on what they should do, can do. They must do it by themselves, they have their own team leader. otherwise the project goes down on chaos.
Our contribution (of community people) are some of the ideas, the visions, the requests, and needs. And they pick inside, to improve their roadmap on an community oriented one.
If we limit us on what we could imagine that is their restrictions. Then we loose a lot on creativity, and velocity, and ideas.
Do you see what i mean?

cemoi71 ( 2015-01-30 18:39:45 +0300 )edit

The problem is that the User experience is lacking. The phone is not/shouldn't be geek only.

ApB ( 2015-01-30 19:11:59 +0300 )edit

I don't think so. And i don't understand why you tell this. could you bring some concrete argument? please

cemoi71 ( 2015-01-30 19:18:35 +0300 )edit
1

answered 2015-01-30 23:51:09 +0300

Thaodan gravatar image

SFTP works just fine and replaces MTP realy good. For the rest stuff would prefer to use existing solutions like KDE connect.

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KDE connect works on what, KDE (or even just Plasma?)? This question is about a standalone solution not wired to some OS or even to a WM.

chemist ( 2015-01-30 23:58:41 +0300 )edit

I works in any DE, you could easily port it to Windows as the KF5 realy (KDE 4 runs on Windows too but KF5 makes it easyer).

Thaodan ( 2015-01-31 00:04:57 +0300 )edit

"If" you want to install KDE runtimes to you system, does it work on a Mac or Android or iOS?

chemist ( 2015-01-31 14:37:11 +0300 )edit

KDE connect has currently only a Android app , there's just need for an Sailfish app which would work mostly , I think the noifications system may be an issue if Sailfish ist too limeted (but this would be an issue too if you write your own solution). You don't need to install KDE on your system just the parts that are needed by it, this is much easyer when it's ported to KF5/Qt5 , where KDE aka KF5 is just an QT Addons just like Silicia on Sailfish. Using KDE or KF5 apps works on OS X, I think iOS would a problem as its very strickt but could work.

Thaodan ( 2015-01-31 14:46:09 +0300 )edit
1

"it is easy to port" is a no for that matter

chemist ( 2015-01-31 18:00:57 +0300 )edit
0

answered 2014-05-11 22:52:42 +0300

Someoneortwo gravatar image

Is there something like Broadway Gtk in Qt's? The port to an browser would be easy!

Thanks.

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Asked: 2014-05-07 14:29:41 +0300

Seen: 2,732 times

Last updated: Feb 01 '15