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SailfishOS, open source, collaboration meeting planning

asked 2014-08-21 22:22:21 +0300

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updated 2018-08-13 13:46:09 +0300

Raymaen gravatar image

Next meeting:Thursday 23th of August 2018 at 08:00 UTC. The meeting will be held on Freenode IRC, #mer-meeting ( http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#mer-meeting )

Check here for your local time: https://bit.ly/2MedEQ7

Logs of previous meetings: http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/

Agenda/topics:


  • add your name/nick using the template below to suggest a topic.
  • indicate how much time you will need for the topic so we can timebox the meeting accordingly
  • please be as thorough as you can with your question/topic
  • if you can't make the meeting please ask and then name a substitute who can in your place.

It is expected that you show up and present your topic, or name a substitute and make sure they attend in your absence. These IRC meetings are for real time participation and live discussions, otherwise you can post the topic on here on TJC or on the mailing list and get responses that way.

We need you to be present to clarify details in the topic, and to ensure the discussion is leading to the answers you are looking for! If you do not participate or your question/topic isn't clear enough it will be postponed. Also: Always ask for *more time than you anticipate your topics needs!!*


Template for topic proposal: (edit this wiki directly to add your topics)

  • Name / IRC nick:
  • topic:
  • some details about the topic:
  • approx time needed:
  • optional: name of substitute if you cannot make it to the upcoming meeting (and inform your substitute!)


For background info and invitation to this series of meetings, please see this post. Past meeting minutes, list of action points and further information are here, more recent minutes are here

Meeting Chair: (volunteers, suggestions,nominations...)

Responsibilities of meeting chair: send invitation/agenda before the meeting, keep time and order during the meeting, send minutes and next meeting planning info after the meeting.

  • James Noori (Jaymzz)
  • Simonas Leleiva (Sledges)
  • Steph Gosling (stephg)
  • Carol Chen (cybette)
  • (your name here)

  • Name / IRC nick: David Llewellyn-Jones / flypig
  • topic: Community contributions to non open-source components
  • some details about the topic: There are a number of oustanding features and bug-fixes that community members have requested in some of the closed-source SFOS components. The message from Jolla is that they are often too busy to focus on them as revenue-generating work must take priority. However, Jolla apparently have an NDA that would allow community contributors to access internal repositories to help submit code and fixes. The topic is a request for Jolla representatives to give some more info about how this works, and for the community to suggest areas for contributions and how the scheme could be made more visible to others.
  • approx time needed: 15 mins
  • optional: if I'm absent, feel free to discuss, or move it to the next meeting as you prefer.

  • Name / IRC nick: Raymaen
  • topic: general problems with roaming on Sailfish OS
  • some details about the topic: There are a lot of questions about this topic on TJC. https://together.jolla.com/question/177397/xperia-x-roaming-does-not-show-local-operator-and-does-not-show-connection/ this question is tracked by Jolla, but since the tracking there have been 2 updates without patching this issue. In my opinion it is a huge problem that needs to be fixed as fast as possible, as it is something that makes Sailfish phones unusable as daily driver. What is the problem and why is it stil present? What can we as comunity do to help solve it? Shouldn't such critical bugs being patched as fast as there is a solution, no matter if it fits the update schedule?
  • approx time needed: 20 - 30 mins (depends on discussion)
  • optional: if I'm absent, feel free to discuss, I'm not that techsavy to understand everything, but i think the problem is clear described in the TJC question.
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Comments

7

Nice that you decided to move this here from the previous pad - I think TJC will serve well in this purpose also, also good to have many different topics under the same roof. Meetings might get new people too?

simo ( 2014-08-21 23:19:11 +0300 )edit
8

@cybette I wonder about the outcome of the action items 2 and 3 from the September 23th meeting:
> 2. Jolla to possibly spare some engineering time and fix up the proprietary bits to at least not crash and burn on SIP
> 3. cybette to poke SIP/dialer guys in Jolla
Unfortunately SIP is still not usable using the latest Jolla update.

alex25 ( 2014-10-28 08:46:46 +0300 )edit

bump. next meeting 7th Jan ?

kimmoli ( 2015-01-05 23:09:51 +0300 )edit

@kimmoli: yes

sledges ( 2015-01-06 16:49:45 +0300 )edit
4

@kimmoli@sledges thanks for the reminder. Sending email...

cybette ( 2015-01-06 16:54:55 +0300 )edit

44 Answers

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62

answered 2015-05-18 14:21:50 +0300

coderus gravatar image
  • coderus
  • opensourcing and allowing to use jolla qml components
  • there are many cool proprietary qml components made by jolla: CameraExtensions, TextLinking, Email ComposerPage, Gallery ThumbnailImage/Video, Sailfish.Pickers (including allowing to use QtDocGallery), TransferEngine. It's always pain to develop applications using camera/email/gallery(filesystem)/thumbnailing, because every developer should implement own hacks for application and can't use native components. If it's not possible (please tell us why) then it will be great to have these components opensources so developer can compile and bundle it to application.
  • 10 min +/- 5 min, really depends how fast jolla sailors can explain about current situation.
  • any jolla sailor responsible for qml components
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Comments

4

Thanks! added to agenda.

cybette ( 2015-05-18 15:20:01 +0300 )edit

Hi! With the question above, I want to draw the attention to the following points:

  • Despite the fact that QML components from jolla-... packages are covered by a proprietary license, they are de facto open source due to a) the content is easily accessible — it isn't encoded/obfuscated; b) they are handled as such by the community — there is Patchmanager with many patches available, the patches are publicly discussed, etc. The latter is the most important thing.
  • When a community patch, developed in a spirit of open-source collaboration, is adopted by the Jolla developers, it become again a part of the proprietary package in the commercial product. That isn't quite bad by itself because the community that have developed the patch don't yet lose anything. But really sad things might happen if Jolla (by any unpredictable reason) one day would decide to close the access to these QML files (by compilation, obfuscation, encoding, etc...). If that will happen, the already adopted community patches would be lost for the community, wasting out their efforts.

That's why I would like to encourage the Sailfish community developers to strongly ask Jolla to make their licensing policy consistent with the present situation: the QML files are developed in cooperation with the community, so there have to be a legal agreement, guaranteeing the results of that cooperative work to be always accessible for the community for further development.

Paul Wolneykien ( 2018-05-15 13:38:04 +0300 )edit
47

answered 2014-08-22 12:10:57 +0300

Nieldk gravatar image

nieldk: I would like to add a discussion on a feasable way to distribute a fastboot flashable base image to restore the phone if a 'brick' (or soft-brick if you prefer). Fx. Can we create a basic bootable image, withouth the binary blobs from Qualcom etc, that are not redistributable, to enable the phone to boot, or, provide some tool so that the user can generate a flashable image (fastboot) which can be restored. I have had the situation, with a dead battery, leaving the phone unable to charge and only able to enter fastboot. The phone was only again bootable because I had purchased an external charger, the phone would never charge enough with USB wall charger because of boot-loop.

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Comments

1

And if there are blobs without which device is "not really usable" maybe there would be enough mode to do OTA update after flashing? Basically it would boot to minimum to re-reflash OTA, so you distribute 3rd party parts exactly as with update

ZogG ( 2014-08-22 13:43:15 +0300 )edit
1

@Nieldk don't forget to introduce the topic with what have been done (sailfish-snapshot), what is needed (something to extract qualcomm drivers ? redistribuable parts ? fastboot image maker ?) from Jolla side and from community side.

Sfiet_Konstantin ( 2014-08-22 19:24:06 +0300 )edit
1

@Nieldk discussion proposal added. btw you can edit the wiki directly too :)

cybette ( 2014-08-26 08:40:34 +0300 )edit
25

answered 2015-09-11 16:36:57 +0300

bobsummerwill gravatar image

Name / IRC nick : bobsummerwill

topic: Request more information on Roadmap for open-sourcing more of Sailfish.

some details about the topic: It has been mentioned on several occasions that there is a plan with regard to further open-sourcing of components within Sailfish. It would be great to have some more public information on that. In particular, the status of Silica is a constant 'sore point'. With the company split and the move towards licensing of Sailfish 2.0, perhaps there is an opportunity to restore some lost faith in Jolla with regard to licensing.

approx time needed: 20 mins

optional: name of substitute if you cannot make it to the upcoming meeting

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Comments

1

thanks @bobsummerwill, added to agenda above. will send email to devel list shortly.

cybette ( 2015-09-30 13:42:48 +0300 )edit
1

Just a reminder that this wasn't discussed after all last time, because Carsten Munk was the best person to answer, but was travelling at the time. Please can we be sure to add this to the November meeting? Thanks!

bobsummerwill ( 2015-10-22 00:13:15 +0300 )edit
1

Yep, part of the reason for schedule change is to make sure we have Carsten/someone to prepare some info for this topic at the next meeting. Thanks!

cybette ( 2015-10-22 13:32:41 +0300 )edit
1

Great - thanks!

bobsummerwill ( 2015-10-22 20:44:48 +0300 )edit
1

Just a reminder, @cybette, as per my reply to the mailing list that I likely will NOT be able to attend this Thursday's meeting in person, because it is at 6.30am in my timezone. I will try, but cannot promise. I am not needed. Please proceed without me. The question is on file and can be answered without me being there.

bobsummerwill ( 2015-11-17 23:02:14 +0300 )edit
14

answered 2015-11-19 19:09:59 +0300

bobsummerwill gravatar image

Name / IRC nick : bobsummerwill topic: Explore options to decentralize Jolla, SailfishOS and Mer essential infrastructure - repositories, web-sites, automated build infrastructure, together.jolla.com, etc. Having any single individual or company solely responsible for such foundational infrastructure is a risk in any situation, let alone in the current situation. Backups are always good. Simplest case we would look to "copy". Better would be an ongoing multi-site "mirror". Best would be something truly decentralized based on IPFS as a long-term aim. approx time needed: 15 mins optional: name of substitute if you cannot make it to the upcoming meeting

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Comments

3

Thanks! Added to agenda.

cybette ( 2015-11-20 02:44:36 +0300 )edit
13

answered 2017-05-03 11:45:32 +0300

leszek gravatar image

updated 2017-05-03 11:46:46 +0300

  • Name / IRC nick: leszek
  • topic: Sony Xperia X camera support full or limited (like AOSP driver) ?
  • some details about the topic: Sony
    disables some camera features for
    AOSP (some need proprietary stuff or patented stuff). Is SailfishOS on Xperia X getting the full support or only the AOSP support (which is pretty limited) ?
  • approx time needed: 5-10 mins
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11

answered 2014-08-22 10:32:39 +0300

I would like to request to move those to later hours or/and preferably to weekends, as for most sailors it is part of their job/approved by bosses, I and, I think, most people also work at those hours and not at every job it would be acceptable to open IRC and even if so it would be irresponsible for me to concentrate on chat instead of work.

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Comments

1

You can always propose your topics in enough detail on the piratepad if there is some point you want to raise. Of course it would be nice if you could attend but at least you can make yourself heard if you put something on the piratepad.

Philippe De Swert ( 2014-08-22 12:34:22 +0300 )edit
3

Than there is no point at meetings at all, ah? As i wrote my concerns around internet already and I know few sailors saw them, in other words, RTC is different experience when you can "discuss".

ZogG ( 2014-08-22 13:39:16 +0300 )edit
1

You misunderstood my point. If for some reason you cannot unfortunately attend then there is still an option to get heard. And afaik the meetings are outside of working hours nowadays (starting at 15h UTC)

Philippe De Swert ( 2014-08-22 13:41:30 +0300 )edit
1

If you cannot attend an IRC meeting open a topic here in TJC. Most people there are also around here. There are more than one communication channels.

ApB ( 2014-08-22 13:50:35 +0300 )edit
3

@ZogG we alternate the meetings between 15UTC and 10UTC to try to accommodate participants from different time zones, from Australia to the Americas. You are welcome to propose a different time for a specific meeting if you have an agenda topic for the meeting!

cybette ( 2014-08-25 10:45:39 +0300 )edit
10

answered 2015-06-17 00:49:27 +0300

ljo gravatar image

Please please make these one q per meeting in the same way we sailors are supposed to make qs per merged release. It is very hard to follow these answers on jolla in the chronological order which is the current default from what i can tell.

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Comments

4

ABSOLUTELY AGREE!! +10 This whole thread is a mess. I never know which topics are new and which are old without carefuly reading through the whole thing!

shfit ( 2015-06-17 12:32:24 +0300 )edit
10

answered 2017-04-16 20:29:37 +0300

Toxip gravatar image

updated 2017-04-16 20:32:39 +0300

  • Name / IRC nick : bshah, toxip, mariogrip

  • Topic: Project Halium, collaboration on common android base

  • Description: Currently Ubuntu Touch, SailfishOS/Mer, Plasma Mobile and others have different android source trees and methods on how our stacks are built even though much of the underlying technologies are the same. There is a lot of unneeded fragmentation. Project Halium aims solve this by the having common android base and perhaps common middleware between different projects so that we could collaborate and distribute each of our resources more efficiently. More details about this project was sent to sailfishos devel list : http://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2017-April/007842.html

  • Approx time needed: 10-15 mins

  • Backup: (The whole Halium team will be there so no backup needed)

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9

answered 2017-02-14 21:32:24 +0300

pavi gravatar image
  • Name / IRC nick: pavi
  • Topic: Clarify and cleanup of Wiki's
  • Details about the topic

We have currently 2 Wikis, one is at https://wiki.merproject.org/ and the other is at https://sailfishos.org/wiki/ . This issue concerns the visiblity of three projects SailfishOS, Mer and Nemo. The three are related to Mer but the information in the wiki is

  • Too confusing
  • Repeated
  • Ambiguous
  • Written in wrong place
  • Outdated

So I hope some time is spent to discuss these issues. I am adding this to locusf topic above discussing Nemo. Please discuss this issue close to that topic.

  • Time Required: 20 minutes
  • backup:locusf
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Comments

ditto that, roll into one add category like Mer, Sailfish, Nemo, similar to Open Repos way of one website but with filter to screen out messages related to mer for example.

DarkTuring ( 2017-02-14 22:48:25 +0300 )edit

A similar idea that I had https://together.jolla.com/question/148537/structuring-together-jolla/ was posted long back. I some times feel we need some more structure. For example, it would be difficult to understand the topics to be discussed in the meeting as it carries all the topics in single thread. I feel that it would be better if a new thread is opened for each meeting with pointer to older meetings (if required) would be good for following threads. Similarly lots of things.

walkingzen ( 2018-02-15 11:36:33 +0300 )edit
7

answered 2014-10-03 13:59:12 +0300

Nokius gravatar image

Name / IRC nick: Nokius topic:How about a SailfishOS stand at FOSDAM15 ? (by community) What about the Idea? Who is in? some details about the topic: Till 20 November deadline for stands. More https://fosdem.org/2015/news/2014-09-19-call-for-participation-part-two/ --> Stands approx time needed: optional: Hope all went well this day and I will join on time :)

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Comments

7

Fosdem is about Free Software and Open Source. As you can see in this table https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/SailfishOSS the Sailfishy parts of SailfishOS are neither. So while a Mer stand might make sense. A SailfishOS stand wouldn't.

torpak ( 2014-12-25 12:34:02 +0300 )edit
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Asked: 2014-08-21 22:22:21 +0300

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Last updated: Aug 13