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brain and thumb are in conflicts [not a question]

asked 2014-10-23 02:04:46 +0200

dridk gravatar image

updated 2015-08-15 01:18:33 +0200

simo gravatar image

there is a scientifics reason, why people doesn't feel good with jolla interface. that's because jolla layout transition do not accord with the reality. when I drag my thumb from the left to the right, my brain is waiting to see something moving in same direction. this is not the case in jolla. The best example, is with notification page, which show you the background moving not intuitively. in contrario, sometime it is moving in the opposite site of your finger. when you show the multitasking view (swipe left or right) , and you drop it, it move to the top to hide the clock..

my advice: keep animation simple, according to the thumb motion. for example, remove switching animation of apps thumbnail when you open an app.. Just show the app. Do not show clock during the left swipping... there is enough place in notification...Just show what is behind!!!!

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The question has been closed for the following reason "not a real question" by simo
close date 2015-08-15 01:18:23.408569



For how long time have you been using Jolla?

simo ( 2014-10-23 02:07:58 +0200 )edit

same here, have used Jolla more than couple days? I think OS won't work fluently if it always follows your finger. I do get what you are saying, but it doesn't work.

You think that when peeking, home screen should follow your finger from edge? No way! That's not peeking. Also clock is there for a reason, it's precisely for peeking option.

Jesse ( 2014-10-23 08:07:03 +0200 )edit

He might be describing how it was on the N9: when you swiped from the side, the active app would stick to your finger and follow it, and it will be minimized only if you release your finger after a distance threshold. It was awesome as visual feedback (the UI felt alive and very material. I admit the SailfishOS is more abstract, but it's a plus. I also missed the feeling of materiality of the UI from the N9, but really, things like peeking completely compensate, and add more on top. Also... really, the transparency change during swiping is following your finger closely, and it's very good as visual feedback. Again, maybe too abstract, but way more natural than the UIs of other phones, where you just tap, then something happens, without your fingers following anything (well, scrolling through lists, but that's everywhere).

Camil B ( 2014-10-23 22:58:36 +0200 )edit

may be trying to concentrate/focus on the content/text (instead of background) might help.

User ( 2014-10-23 23:13:52 +0200 )edit

Hi, I m using jolla since a while. I like jolla team and I would like to help to be better. So, no offense! I m just repeat the general general feeling arround me ( friends, and french media). You cannot deny that jolla learning curves is pretty low comparing to other device. So, I m sure we can combine swipping feature of jolla with an "easy to learn" user interface.. And, I just tried to explain why.

dridk ( 2014-10-23 23:26:18 +0200 )edit

6 Answers

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answered 2014-10-23 23:05:29 +0200

simo gravatar image

Suggesting closing this as "Not a question" or "Not relevant", and stopping downvoting a TJC member who have posted only few questions.

Unlike instead of unpolite ;)

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I downvoted because I disagree with the suggestions (and to draw attention to the poor quality so it can be closed or edited by someone). I would think the voting system exists to be used? (it just occurred to me that if people disagree with my comment, they can't downvote it...)

steabert ( 2014-10-24 00:02:46 +0200 )edit

Sure, downvoting is an easy way to express disagreement and always ok to use, no problem. Personally I avoid downvoting without commenting why, and especially in questions/answers of members who have just a few karma points (75 is required already to edit a wiki post). By the way, if you'd like the q to be edited, a simple "Could you edit this?" might also work better than -1 ;)

simo ( 2014-10-24 00:23:49 +0200 )edit

@simo: good one, liked :)

torcida ( 2014-10-24 03:42:27 +0200 )edit

@simo I completely agree with you. It would be nice if we all could practise a little more courtesy. Guidance and the ability to listen and discuss without being patronising serves community a lot more than punishing the ones who use their freedom of opinion just because it is not one's own or the majority's position. A fruitful discussion is worth much more than a karma class society where some four- or five-digits (mis)use their power by surpressing interesting suggestions just to keep up their own, suggestions that could eventually lead to practical evolvements. For me down-voting is the last instrument to repress subversive and offensive input.

lakutalo ( 2015-03-13 22:01:20 +0200 )edit

answered 2014-10-23 23:44:38 +0200

dridk gravatar image

updated 2014-10-23 23:45:18 +0200

Just another example :
Drag from bottom, to open the notification, but keep your thumb on the screen...
Then, move back, to close the notification.. So, I associated ( move down to close)

Open completly your notification. How I m supposed to close it ?
- I can close it from dragging from the top. Because, it close the app..
- I can close it from dragging from bottom ( like I opened it)... And this is really confusing....

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I do admit that number 2 might be little confusing.

But I really do like this swiping from bottom, because it makes it possible to use with one hand. I can look notifications and come back to the application I was using. Swiping from top would need me to move my hand a little, which isn't so convenient.

And your test1 doesn't mean that swiping top-down is closing, because when you don't remove your finger from screen, it's called peeking.

Jesse ( 2014-10-23 23:51:50 +0200 )edit
  1. arent you overlooking the peekfunctionality here?.. instead of associating partial gestures to an action; look at the whole action.. that is 'returning a gesture to its start point'. it applies to all edges: bottom, sides, top

  2. notification screen isn't a 'window' like another apps.. in the vertical UI column, its a folded flap :| at the end.

moreover, when in notification screen, what action do you suggest instead of closing it? removing the close action (for whatever reason) will only reduce the functionality

User ( 2014-10-23 23:57:17 +0200 )edit

So, I agree with you for the 2.... So, WHY Can I close it from the TOP ? It should be forbidden! Actually, I can close the notification from top, right, left, bottom... :( How can I explain that to someone?

dridk ( 2014-10-23 23:57:28 +0200 )edit

the concept is very simple. an edge swipe ALWAYS puts the content on the screen away. And system wide, the bottom swipe is reserved for notifications. So the whole thing your are concerned about is the bottom swipe when in notification.. it is simply the notification TOGGLE

User ( 2014-10-24 00:18:15 +0200 )edit

Unfortunally no... A bottom edge swipe can open and close notification. A left swipe can show ambiance or put back the application or close the notification.. But I may be wrong! Will make a mokup to explain more if I have time.

dridk ( 2014-10-24 00:28:58 +0200 )edit

answered 2014-10-24 02:08:01 +0200

simo gravatar image

Hmm, @dridk finds these issues very important, so let's try to solve this as a question then instead of closing. My answer: People have different opinions about the UI, all opinions should be taken as constructive. Learning curve is fast or slow. First impression is good or bad. Long term experience is better or worse. There's not a perfect solution which would be the ultimate best for everyone, so the aim should be set to a compromise, satisfying most of the customers.

What might help in this, is to work it towards something natural. We had a small discussion with Jaakko about a home being a home, and it helped me a lot to understand Jolla's UI. Also the use of only one hand, and especially the natural movement of your thumb, plays an important part in Sailfish. Let's adopt, adapt and improve:

Coming home

  • Double tap / Oh, I forgot my key again... Knock on the door
  • Flick up / Throw your hat (like mr.Bond) when you walk in. Your kids always laugh to that trick.
    • or flick down / Check what's there in the top shelf. Your most important things when you get home
    • or pull down and release / You already know what you want to do next

Oh, the mail has arrived

  • Swipe up / Lift the mail up from your doorstep
    • Tap message / Nice, it's from... Check that mail
    • Long hold message / Nasty commercials... Crease it
  • Swipe up again / Put the mail to the top shelf (where you always keep it) and get on
  • or swipe down / Put the mail to the bottom shelf (where you always keep it) and get on

Hmm... I was about to...

  • Tap on app / Take something you need next. Ok, you took a magazine!
  • or flick up and tap / Walk to the next room. Oh, kids have put everything in order to their floor :) That one!

In app (leaving out all app dependent gestures)

  • Swipe up / Pull the shopping list out from your pocket (as you did with the pile of mail in your doorstep)
  • or peek from bottom / Take a quick view to the shopping list, and return it to your pocket
  • Peek from right or left / Move aside the magazine from your face, as your wife is talking to you. You can just continue reading after listening to her.
  • Peek from top / Move down the magazine from your face, as your wife is talking to you. You might not be able to continue reading after listening to her.
  • Swipe from left or right / Put the magazine to the table next to you, leaving it open for quick access later
  • Swipe down / Put the magazine where it belongs to. Yes, the bottom shelf, leaving your room tidy (all the important stuff in this house are either in the bottom shelf or on floor, except your hat)

That was interesting... Oh, it's already dark outside. What a day...

  • Swipe left or right / Visit the walk-in closet to select new curtains, make it cozy for Christmas/morning/party/...
    • Tap / Yes, these are perfect curtains for tonight!
    • Swipe left or right / Get back to the living room. Ooo \o/ someone already changed those for you. How quick was that :)
  • Swipe down / Take your hat and leave the house. Door is closed automatic, and it locked in 30 sec (in case you forgot the shopping list)

Saturday - time to clean up

  • Flick up / Enter your kids room. Floor has a lot of stuff, as usual
    • Long hold & pull / Grab on something and move it next to a similar toy. Or pile them up to a box
    • tap on somewhere / * about the only gesture I can't find a natural equivalence * (leaving the launcer's edit view)
  • Flick down / Return to your living room. Oh, it's messy here too. 9 things left laying here and there...
  • Long hold / Start from anywhere, just grab on something.
    • tap to close / This I don't need, that I don't need... quite easy
    • or pull down / Let's put everything to the famous bottom shelf at once

If you understood only the left side of the slash, your swim like a Sailfish [/] If you only understood the right side of the slash, head to jolla.com/guideIf you got an idea for a new natural gesture, please check this wiki https://together.jolla.com/question/19314/list-guide-reserved-and-free-gestures-in-sailfishos/

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answered 2014-10-24 00:07:02 +0200

dridk gravatar image

updated 2014-10-24 00:08:32 +0200

And another question relative to the post :
From the multitasking View, I can drag the Ambiance List from the left or right.... And This time, it appears like on N9, without the opacity animation, but a real translation.. It's so confusing.. You do not apply same rule everywhere..

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please don't continue to comment or post new questions as answers to your original 'question'

steabert ( 2014-10-24 00:11:14 +0200 )edit

On this you can be right, because it opens and closes differently. I haven't noticed it because I don't think it as an normal application. But maybe it could be changed. Although ambiance closing from sides or top is following the normal rules of applications.

Same thing is with notifications. It's not an application, because it can be launched from anywhere in the OS. Like someone said, it's an layer in top of everything. That's why it can be also closed differently.

Jesse ( 2014-10-24 00:15:08 +0200 )edit

answered 2015-03-13 20:13:12 +0200

dridk gravatar image

updated 2015-03-13 20:17:41 +0200

I just saw a video of the new sailfish OS 2.0 . -Transition between page now looks "logic" => +1
-Swipping actions on Thumbnail have been removed => +1 ( never used it )
- Application list appears from bottom with a Page Animation .. Logic => +1
- One way to get Notification and close it .. +1

And I tested the new sailfishOS navigator ... - Animation and everything looks clear and logic .. +1

So, You resolve all my requests ! My Brain and my thumb are now going to like you :D Waiting now to see how sailfish0S 2.0 will run on mobile

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answered 2014-10-24 00:31:05 +0200

User gravatar image

updated 2014-10-24 00:31:26 +0200

it is not perfect. but have you read this: https://sailfishos.org/core-article.html ?

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Really interesting. This picture resume exactly what I dislike... Many way to do one thing : https://sailfishos.org/images/design/design-gesture-event.png !

dridk ( 2014-10-24 00:35:14 +0200 )edit

What this picture is saying is not true! When in Notification Screen it is like this:

  • swiping from up or down will bring you back to previous view
  • swiping from the sides will bring you to the Home Screen
torcida ( 2014-10-24 04:01:35 +0200 )edit

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Asked: 2014-10-23 02:04:46 +0200

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Last updated: Mar 13 '15