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[Jolla Tablet] SailfishOS 2, coming to Jolla phone 1? [answered]

asked 2014-11-19 16:29:32 +0300

dsilveira gravatar image

updated 2014-12-07 18:42:46 +0300

dulog gravatar image

Dear Jolla,

I feel sad to hear about yet another campaign to gather money from us, your costumers, anouncing a new tablet with a new version of Sailfish that will supposedly contain most of the features we request!

But how do you believe we can trust our hard earned money to yet another device aiming to be whatever we wish it to be, when the one that cost us €400 and was supposed to be whatever we wished it to be, turned out to be very lacking in features, both in hardware: NFC, RAM, battery-size, hdmi, Miracast, screen-resolution, hw keyboard, fm-radio receiver/emitter, etc.; as in software with all the bugs/missing features (for instance the still terribly unstable network connectivity), and the totally divergent updates roadmap, with regards to the community wishes??

What saddens me most is to see an announcement of a sailfishOS 2 without even mentioning if we are getting an upgrade path to it, with our Jolla Phones; aswell as all the talk about openness, again, when we are still waiting to see it realize, with our last investment, more than a year ago!

Do you honestly feel that I'm giving you any more money for yet another promise, untill I can trust the product I already have in my hand is worth the big investment of time and money (at the very least in terms of stability)?

I end with an actual question: Is sailfishOS 2 coming to Jolla phones, if so when? And will it be after or before the most proeminent bugs in sailfishOS 1 are fixed?

regards

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The question has been closed for the following reason "the question is answered, an answer was accepted" by r0kk3rz
close date 2015-09-23 17:16:55.055832

Comments

3

From different posts and questions/rumors here it seems that update9 for general-public (not those who opted in) is joining update 10 and may end up being branded Sailfish 2 at release (rumored to be 27 Nov).

Keeper-of-the-Keys ( 2014-11-19 17:33:01 +0300 )edit
9

Update 9 has been released last month. Update 10 will probably get released this month but it will not be SailfishOS 2.0 simply because it's a release focused on bug fixes (which is a good thing, IMHO).

Looking at the sailfish-browser repository in GitHub I noticed that they finally merged the new UI, and that will probably make it in update 11 (pure speculation, of course). I don't know if the December/January (they deserve the Christmas holidays!) release will be SailfishOS 2.0 or not, but there may be a chance.

g7 ( 2014-11-19 17:57:33 +0300 )edit
4

update 9 has been released? I don't think that a beta-testers opt-in counts has released, sorry

dsilveira ( 2014-11-19 17:59:16 +0300 )edit
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It has been already said that u9 will remain opt-in. There won't be the "general" release.

g7 ( 2014-11-19 18:03:45 +0300 )edit
2

if that's so it doesn't count as released

dsilveira ( 2014-11-19 18:04:43 +0300 )edit

13 Answers

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76

answered 2014-11-19 19:32:08 +0300

bijjal gravatar image

We have one operating system to support multiple devices. We are now gearing up to work towards the tablet which may result in having tablet-specific bits in the OS. Rest assured, when the tablet comes to the market, we aim to provide OS updates for both our devices regularly. We are fully committed to continue updating software for Jolla1. The next update (as planned) is update10.

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2

I try to find a post from a Jolla employee saying that Jolla Phone will support Sailfish OS 2.0 but there is none on this site. This does not convince me.

ron282 ( 2014-11-26 08:05:01 +0300 )edit
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@ron282 - The above post is from a Jolla employee as you can see by the badge in the profile :)

VDVsx ( 2014-11-26 13:06:17 +0300 )edit
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@VDVsx but the post doesn't explicitly say that Sailfish OS 2.0 would come to Jolla 1, OS updates can also mean just maintenance updates in 1.X OS version branch.

arinan ( 2014-11-26 14:22:04 +0300 )edit
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@ron282 "We have one operating system to support multiple devices." what does that say? =)

virgi26 ( 2014-11-26 21:17:56 +0300 )edit
2

Please, can one of the sailors also react to this issue that should be fixed soon:

https://together.jolla.com/question/64892/bug-the-most-urgent-problem-connections-manager/

Hopefully in the next update... 105 votes and counting, should warrant a respomse by Jolla sailors, right?

bilgy_no1 ( 2014-11-27 00:21:07 +0300 )edit
42

answered 2014-11-19 16:43:58 +0300

Beethoven gravatar image

updated 2014-11-19 17:10:36 +0300

dsilveira gravatar image

aswell as all the talk about openness, again, when we are still waiting to see it realize, with our last investment, more than a year ago!

I invested in the Jolla a year ago, and I have to say that I have in fact used the phone for a year. So I would say that the investment has in fact, been fruitful. It was made very clear that the phone would be buggy, and it was, and still is, but that was very much a part of the deal. The upside was a UI that (imho) makes iOS and Android feel like Windows CE.

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3

You came late to the party, I and many others invested in May 2013, and there was no promise of bugs, lol

dsilveira ( 2014-11-19 16:45:36 +0300 )edit
3

and the quote is incomplete, because I was talking about the realization of the openness promise, still being missing, which it is!

dsilveira ( 2014-11-19 16:50:27 +0300 )edit
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If you believe software comes without bugs I have a bridge to sell you....

The n900 had (and still has) bugs.

The n9 I believe too (I only got it as an "in-between" n900-jolla so didn't use it long/intensive enough to be bothered by anything major)

The Jolla has bugs.

And Jolla Tablet will have bugs.

People make mistakes, it's a fact of life.

Keeper-of-the-Keys ( 2014-11-19 17:02:23 +0300 )edit

your just being ridiculous, despite what your saying being obvious, your frasing it in a way to seem like it goes against what I said, which it obviously doesn't

dsilveira ( 2014-11-19 17:05:37 +0300 )edit
3

"There was no promise of bugs"?

Keeper-of-the-Keys ( 2014-11-19 17:09:51 +0300 )edit
14

answered 2014-11-19 16:42:11 +0300

this post is marked as community wiki

This post is a wiki. Anyone with karma >75 is welcome to improve it.

updated 2014-11-19 16:48:25 +0300

albacoris gravatar image

Jolla is`t Nokia or Microsoft - with all giant financial potential... So, if we want a new model (phone, tablet or so), we must, as "society of lovers" pay for it. Maybe it is sad, but in this world nothing is for free. We MUST be TOGETHER - if we want keep Jolla alive and stronger :) Sorry for my english :/

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why the wiki answer?

dsilveira ( 2014-11-19 16:46:46 +0300 )edit
11

yeah, but we don't want a new model of a phone or tablet. We want that the phone, we already bought, works correctly and gets the features they are talking about for almost a year.

pfloyd_again ( 2014-11-19 16:48:29 +0300 )edit

by mistake :( Sorry

albacoris ( 2014-11-19 16:49:09 +0300 )edit
1

I agree with #pfloyd_again. But I also understand why Jolla try to gather some money for new devices. Show must go on. BTW, Jolla phone is not so bad at all. Don`t compare it with Android phones - it is not fair :)

albacoris ( 2014-11-19 16:52:14 +0300 )edit

you know you change it back, right? just asking

dsilveira ( 2014-11-19 16:53:10 +0300 )edit
9

answered 2014-11-19 16:59:12 +0300

Keeper-of-the-Keys gravatar image

It is my understanding that the next SailfishOS update may already be branded 2.0.

Version numbers in the end are just that numbers chosen fairly arbitrarily at no point was the suggestion given that they are splitting the OS like Google did with Android 3 (Honeycomb) and all things considered if it ends up being like Honeycomb and coming back together in SailfishOS 3.0 that's fine by me but I highly doubt Jolla has the resources to split Sailfish into two branches without a very good reason.

Other then that I am with Beethoven, I love my Jolla, so much so that when I broke the GorillaGlass recently I ended up buying a second device (because that was cheaper then fixing it, which is kind of ridiculous).

In the end of the day Jolla is a commercial company and they need to pay the wages of the people making these fantastic products so yes they need to ask us the community to step up.

In this case so far I have not purchased the device but that is because I don't really see myself using a tablet and not because I am worried about the promises, the specs given for this tablet are very decent and the pricepoint is right there with the other similar tablets so I really don't see why you are comparing this product to the Jolla Phone price/specs at release time....

As far as the community wishes, I can tell you from some contact I have had with Jolla Devs about submitting a patch to a program they consider 'closed' (jolla-calendar) that they look at the votes on this website, I fixed a problem I had that did not garner a lot of votes had it garnered a lot of votes I probably never would have needed to do that, but I don't mind hacking away a bit at my phone, to me it gave a great feeling of empowerment that I could just fix what I didn't like!

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2

This is a device for people with a pioneering spirit. This is the most beautiful in Jolla - a sense of participation in the birth of a new quality.

albacoris ( 2014-11-19 17:29:54 +0300 )edit

If you did see yourself buying a tablet, maybe you'd start being worried about the promises, wouldn't you?

dsilveira ( 2014-11-19 17:32:22 +0300 )edit
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"I love my Jolla, so much so that when I broke the GorillaGlass recently I ended up buying a second device."

This is the crux of the matter, to me. Yes it's buggy, the connection bug sometimes drives me crazy, and sometimes the low RAM gives a laggy experience that is very annoying, having said that, if I lost or broke the phone I wouldn't even bother checking out the latest Apple/Google offerings, I would just order another one ASAP.

And that's why as soon as I saw the funding page I threw down an order for the tablet. Right now (in my opinion), Jolla has the best OS by a long way. I miss bank-ID, and I miss some small apps (I don't have the android framework installed), but when I see a nice little tablet running Sailfish for a ridiculously low price, I don't think about the bugs, I'm just thinking 'Shut up and take my money'.

And just to add, that I was not even remotely that satisfied with the 770 and the 800, which were both exciting offerings from Nokia but buggy and slow as hell. The experience with Jolla has been infinitely better, and that is so impressive considering their size in comparison to Nokia.

Beethoven ( 2014-11-19 18:08:45 +0300 )edit

I can understand what you're feeling, as I agree up to a point. And that point is, trust. With relation to the phone jolla has so many issues still, that I'm still fearfull of trusting them with my money again.

dsilveira ( 2014-11-19 18:15:32 +0300 )edit

Unlike the Jolla phone where we did not know specs ahead of time and it was a true leap of faith here the exact specs were presented to you so other then sw/build quality not living up to your expectations I really don't see what there is to worry about.

I am extremely tempted to get the tablet, the only worry I have is that I don't see myself using the device enough and as such I really can't justify this spending to myself (unlike TOHKBD which I know I will use and therefor got).

Keeper-of-the-Keys ( 2014-11-19 18:27:30 +0300 )edit
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answered 2014-11-19 17:48:01 +0300

sada11 gravatar image

I am with your question @dsilveira, I understand what Jolla must doing because 'small' company, I am happy that they announced Tablet, and get rocket start batching , but if Jolla still think to hold your customers , thay must do what they promise first! Jolla phone update, we not seen him ago. My question is what's happening with ours September/October/November Update? How they not had time for that, and had time for announce something new?

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3

exactly !!

dsilveira ( 2014-11-19 17:50:20 +0300 )edit
2

I am complaining too, but I'd rather wait for a well tuned and stable release, maybe at the end of this month. Announcing a tablet is also great news that shows Jolla is here and we are going to have good support.

pmelas ( 2014-11-19 18:47:59 +0300 )edit
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im sure there is a whole department working on Sailfish OS development and a another separate department working on new products and marketing. they are small and dont have the resources of microsoft or apple to test bugs etc. we bought into the unlike idea. if you want phone/device that works just like the rest of them go get one. perhaps some patience is required. Microsoft, Apple and Google were massive companies before mobiles devices came along, they have teams of 1000's and billions of dollars to develop a new OS. what did jolla have 3 years ago? $50 million and 100 people.

madcheeze ( 2014-11-19 19:42:59 +0300 )edit
3

I am pretty sure the software developers weren't much involved in the tablet. Why the update is a bit late is due to the major technology shift to Qt 5.2 which brought a ton of bugs hence the opt-in release. They are also working hard on the SDK and finalizing of libraries for 3rd party developers, which will eventually be benefiting the end users. Jolla also has to spend time working on its store as there is still not possible to process payments in store which also affects the number of apps. These things take priority, because they deliver the most value.

The tablet will be benefical to the phone and therefore is a good startegy from Jolla. It will require decent landscape mode which the Jolla is lacking atm, but it should be done just in time for #tohkbd thanks to the tablet. The tablet will also bring some new users thus creating more leverege when dealing with 3rd party companies, hopefully leading to better support and apps such as offline maps whilst allowing the company to stay afloat.

I know it is frustrating at times, when a bug or a lack of feature stops you from doing what you want with your device, but software development IS slow; Think of it like a garden, to have a beautiful garden it takes time, effort and care, in my opinion Jolla does care and does make a lot of effort which will lead to a splendid system. Unfortunately Jolla needs to prioritize, because they can't work on everything at the same time. As a user the best thing you can do is to report bugs on this very site and to vote on bugs and features that are important to you. Jolla will try to get the most popular ones done first, however there are equally or even more important issues that require their attention that might not be obvious to most end users.

fasza2mobile ( 2014-11-20 00:43:15 +0300 )edit
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I no problem with hidden features (bugs) or missing features (in the end the Jolla1 is the same as the N900, a hackers device). The part which I'm not too happy about is the communication which gives the feeling that the "together" extends only as far as my money becomes theirs. I hope a large part is the tech nature of Jolla as a company and it is a fact of live that technical people don't communicate that well usually. So a few examples where my trust in Jolla has got dented (as @dsilveira the main (?) isse):

  • I did see the Jolla crowd funding announcement but I didn't see the keyboard announcement. Why not promote it ? Yes it is a community item but it is a very well done and seemingly fairly desired one.
  • For the tablet I'd have loved to see a "what features would you like of your next Jolla phone/tablet" even if labelled as market research and that non of the wishes might happen.
  • It would be good to see some form of road map of items to be addressed of the community issues/queries.
  • Could a for community issues it be highlighted when an item is fixed/closed. For a software issue/feature say in which update is included and cross reference from the change log the community request.

For my part I give Jolla the benefit of doubt (so was happy to take part in the funding) for now. On the other side it is a fact that I shunned/boycotted Nokia because of their customer relationship was displaying a very snobbish attitude. For that reason I really hope that the mindset was left in the part of Nokia which disappeared and has not moved into Jolla.

Andre ( 2014-11-21 19:04:47 +0300 )edit
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answered 2014-12-02 18:28:56 +0300

sada11 gravatar image

updated 2014-12-02 19:06:21 +0300

About this we talking here!? https://together.jolla.com/question/68125/official-announcement-current-status-of-update10/

Dear Jolla users, We've been working hard on improving the out of memory (OOM) handling by the OS since the update9 opt-in was released. A portion of our time went into demo preparations for Slush and of course the tablet launch. This has left us lagging a bit behind the internal release schedule for update10. ..... Finalisation of update10 depends on the above mentioned points and bringing SailfishOS version compatibility support for Jolla Store and Harbour. We really hope to release before Christmas, though in the event we are unable to accomplish the improvements stated above by the end of next week (=1 week before Christmas holidays begin), we will not release update10 during December. We prefer to not release at the start of a vacation period when we are not around to support you in the first few days of a new release. Thanking you for your patience and continued support, Jolla team

...Jolla not have time for bring that update to us. Not this year, and next year they they will be out of time, because need to prepare for launching tablet, and OS2 for him, so sad! They promised too much...

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Agreed, but at least they gave useful insight, that ought to be valued!

Can you please update your post with the link to where that quote comes from, thanks.

dsilveira ( 2014-12-02 18:44:35 +0300 )edit

@Markkyboy: already edited in!

dsilveira ( 2014-12-02 19:17:24 +0300 )edit
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@dsilveira: only valued if it happens once or occassionally. Now this is I don't know how many times already, certainly not the first apologizing for delay. Jolla team should definitely invest in better planning maybe managing the development.

Cary Grant ( 2014-12-08 18:44:35 +0300 )edit
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answered 2014-11-19 17:49:55 +0300

lupastro gravatar image

Well, if we compared N9 and Jolla, I'd say Jolla is much more matured and stable than the N9 ever was. And behind the N9 there was a big player like Nokia (independently of the Elop-Move).

I also payed 400€ for the N9 and only got 3 updates.

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1

because that we are not with Nokia anymore... isn't ?

sada11 ( 2014-11-19 17:57:08 +0300 )edit
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In term of feature set and stability, N9 is still ahead. Jolla Phone has other advantages like CPU power and Android compatibility. Count of software updates is not a significant value from my point of view.

ron282 ( 2014-11-26 08:01:31 +0300 )edit

Totally agree. N9 have way better hardware and better sofware. I payed for Jolla 414,01€. I guess 14 euro cost those 6 extra updates.

cropas ( 2014-11-27 12:05:49 +0300 )edit

The bugs of Jolla seem impossible to come around, therefore felt more serious. The N9 also had bugs, but those were less annoying. On the other hand the expectations were very different and therefore it's just unfair to compare. Running Android apps makes Jolla much more useful in practical everyday things as there are so many 3rd party services linked to iOS or Android, the N9 had nothing of these.

Cary Grant ( 2014-12-08 18:33:57 +0300 )edit

I'm using both N9 and Jolla for everyday tasks and I can only confirm that N9 is much more reliable. My expectations when buying both N9 and Jolla were high, but I'm sorry to say that to me SailfishOS feels like retarded younger brother compared to Meego.

Dubravko ( 2014-12-11 13:40:08 +0300 )edit
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answered 2014-11-26 20:58:51 +0300

Fellfrosch gravatar image

Jesus, what are you talking about? Maybe I can understand when you don't like the OS. Maybe there are still some features missing. But on the hardware side??? RAM size, screen resolution, hw-keyboard - hello, have you read one word from that what Jolla announced? I was one of the first one's and i knew very well what hardware I get. What you shout out sounds to me like "I have bought a VW Golf and that f*ing car doesn't run 300 km/h and I can't drive from Moscow to Lisbon without searching for a petrol station..."

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3

dont say nosense the hardware is very low. Screen is low quality, speaker is very week, camera have 8mp but the photos captured are low quality. internal storage have minimun size. NFC is only for OTH. The only good thing is wireless, OS and aesthetic and screen size...

michdeskunk ( 2014-11-26 22:28:05 +0300 )edit
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i knew very well

Not that much of a first one then. All we knew about the hardware when pre-orders started back in May 2013 was (copied directly from join.jolla.com from 21st May 2013, the day after Jolla Love Day):

•Jolla original design with ample 4.5” Estrade display
•Dual core and 4G**)
•Keep it and share with 16GB + microSD
•8MP AF camera
•User-replaceable battery
•The Other Half
•Gesture based Sailfish OS
•Android™ app compliant

And that was it. The full technical spec that was available to us at that time.

strongm ( 2014-11-27 01:13:03 +0300 )edit
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The hardware isn't the best, but they have never promised you anything else . And I STILL KNEW VERY WELL, because before shipping Jolla revealed the specs and you got the chance to retreat from your preoder.

Fellfrosch ( 2014-11-27 08:09:55 +0300 )edit

At the time I (and many others) committed to Jolla, we did not know the specification. By the time we did know anything about the (mediocre) hardware specs something called cognitive dissonance kicked into play, and has continued to afflict Jolla owners ever since: in essence we ignore any evidence that might demonstrate we made an error in buying Jolla, and where we can't ignore contrary evidence it we come up with excuses for why the evidence isn't really contrary at all (just look for example at how a near 5 month lack of public OS upgrade is excused by "well, monthly releases were never practical ", "a monthly release schedule was merely aspirational", "the opt-in release counts as a public release", "ready when it is ready is best" - and my current favourite, that hotfixes count as updates, thus making the average public release schedule over the year meet the schedule that Jolla had indicated).

strongm ( 2014-12-03 14:05:56 +0300 )edit
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I honestly don't think that many of the HW specs matter as long as the SW works on it. Remeber iPhone 1-2-3? Lagged behind in HW, still working quite smooth, because SW was carefully matching those limitations. I'm not saying that the Jolla phone couldn't have better HW, and perhaps the choice of the radio components and memory size indeed seem at least a bit off but I think the main problem is that Sailfish doesn't mach these limitations according to our expectations.

Cary Grant ( 2014-12-08 18:39:28 +0300 )edit
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answered 2014-11-26 20:25:31 +0300

Crowd-funding the the way to go. If you like the idea, support the company by voting with your money. Jolla proved by opting for crowd-funding, successful it can be. It is a way to fund a companies development budget in return you receive great value, in Jolla's case, a valuable open source tablet, that will run a great OS (SailfishOS). SailFishOs which is improving by the month.

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2

a haven't seen an improvement since, july, that's almost 5 months old, maybe you're on the developer update channel, by mistake

dsilveira ( 2014-11-28 04:30:16 +0300 )edit
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answered 2014-11-26 22:09:20 +0300

michdeskunk gravatar image

I agree your question. I am sad like you knowing that jolla now working on a tablet instead to working seriously on our jolla phone that it has a lot of miss feature to be a real smartphone. I answer to your second question, obviously sailfish 2.0 is based for a tablet device and OS of tablet cannot will be a phone OS. now we still waiting for 10th update.. we have to wait other 90updates to have sailfish 2.0 in our phone. I am sad that jolla spend his time to create others projects without finish before the main project!

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Asked: 2014-11-19 16:29:32 +0300

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Last updated: Dec 10 '14