asked 2013-12-30 11:45:57 +0300
Paid apps support in the Sailfish.
commented below:
Hi there, we are actively working on something but we don't have anything to announce at this point. I know this is not what you want to hear exactly, but that's the best "some words" I can offer right now... cybette (Apr 9 '15)edit
answered 2017-11-16 17:08:25 +0300
I brought up this question again on SailfishOS, open source, collaboration meeting planning held on November 16th 2017, 9:00 UTC.
You can find the log here: http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2017/mer-meeting.2017-11-16-09.00.log.html
The topic was discussed from 09:32:25 until 09:49:13.
Jaymzz said: "Alright naytsyrhc I'm gonna go ahead and give you the answer you want: Short answer is yes. But it might not be implemented as you and I are used to. I can't comment much more at the moment because this still has a while on it and quite a way to go. But getting to the app ecosystem is very important for us indeed and we will get to it when it's time."
They said they will blockchain all the suggested ideas and then see what comes out.
answered 2017-03-19 18:49:47 +0300
So..... FOUR freaking years since the launch of Sailfish OS, and TWO freaking years after they ensured that "support for paid apps is top priority for them", not only there's still absolutely NOTHING in this regard, but no one from Jolla has even just mentioned a word about it since early 2015 or so. This thread (for years being the top 6th when it comes to the number of votes, out of 16,700 topics on this site) has always been completely ignored by them, too.
As a result, Salfish OS remains the ONLY mobile platform on Earth that does not support paid apps and therefore does not offer ANY incentives for developers to come and make apps for this OS, so they just don't. Which in turn causes that during FOUR years since 2013 this platform got several times less of native apps than what even the ultra-niche Nokia N9 or N900 got in less than 2 years. Read: the least of ALL mobile platforms ever created, including even GEOS of the first Nokia Communicators in the '90s. A few hundred native apps in 4 years is a DISASTER, and it won't ever change unless developers are allowed to monetize their apps on this platform.
This situation is totally incomprehensible for every sane person. What is Jolla's plan? To fully rely on the outdated (and in fact approaching its EOL) Android 4.x runtime forever? Will they ever be able to update it to at least Android 5 and Google Services (that almost all new Android apps now require)? DOUBTFUL, because Google does not permit it to be used by non-OHA members and on devices where Android isn't the host OS. Even BlackBerry wasn't permitted to upgrade their Alien Dalivk Android runtime beyond Android 4.x on their BB10 phones (which eventually killed that OS). So what will Jolla do in a year or two when their Android 4.x runtime becomes as obsolete as what Android 2.x is now, and with no native apps whatsoever? This is the LAST MOMENT to finally start building a strong native ecosystem.
Moreover, due to BB10 demise, it is the last time to try to attract some BB10 developers who are RIGHT NOW forced to look for new platforms to develop for. BB10 is a Qt-based platform like SFOS, so porting apps is easy and quick and not much learning is required for a BB10 developer to get familiar with SFOS. So even if SFOS (due to its size) couldn't offer MUCH revenue for a BB10 developer, that quickness and easiness of porting apps would surely convince many BB10 developers to quickly port their apps to SFOS and earn a few bucks. But if this platform continues not to offer ANY monetizing possibilities, ABSOLUTELY NO ONE will bother. By 2018 all BB10 developers will move to either Android or iOS, and once they make the effort to learn their APIs and establish position on those tough markets, none of them will ever bother to even think about going back to as tiny platform as Jolla.
It's been now FOUR years since I could not stop wondering how such an easy thing as adding payment support to the existing app store has been completely ignored by Jolla. There are countless companies which fully handle the whole online payment process in exchange for a small commission (like 1% or so). As app stores usually take 30%, it would still leave 29% for Jolla, for doing nothing. Even the app testing / QA process would not differ from the one they already do with free apps, either.
Wake up Jolla. Now that BB10 is dying and all BB10 developers are NOW looking for alternatives, it's your LAST chance to be able to attract a large group of existing Qt developers who don't need to learn how to code for a Qt platform and have thousands of apps which could be quickly and easily ported. Ignore it, let them switch to Android or iOS development, and you won't have such possibility EVER AGAIN, because it is the last commercially active Qt-based mobile platform and the last group of Qt developers to reach out for.
And this is also the last time I am asking you. Four years of waiting and so many requests without anyone even bothering to answer is ENOUGH. I've got some 20 high quality apps for BB10, all of them rated 5/5 and very popular. Let me port them to SFOS now, or be well.
and tbh- i really dont get it. as if may be not my no1 wanted feature it should be jollas- as it is an actual way to MAKE some money besides the usual marketing. in fact it would be nice to have some numbers of what kind of cash other app stores create. "JUST" offering a platform seems like an easy way to generate some extra cash.
kaktux ( 2017-03-19 19:23:02 +0300 )editJolla is dead guys. The last big thing was a vendor in India who's supply of available phones sold out very rapidly, according to their own blog. Which is an euphomism for "they got rid of their stock and then quit ASAP". They are forever announcing stuff that if you look after a half a year or so just never seems to have happened. You may have some success with strong-arm regimes like Russia that can force people to use it, but even that remains to be seen. I moved to iPhone and am very content. Quite a change that everyting just works.
FJVA ( 2017-03-19 19:38:20 +0300 )editanswered 2016-04-28 16:27:26 +0300
This is the biggest reason for Jolla not succeeding with SFOS. Developers, private or companies will never develop any apps or games if they can't make any money out of them. I am not talking about Ad's, that's not the same thing. For trial versions software can be crippled with limited functionality or expiration date.
Why doesn't Jolla see this? The only real thing that could bring SFOS into competion is the one that Jolla does nothing about.
And no, like some comment here said, there is nothing that says the apps should be free for the customer with SFOS, only the OS is.
So come on Jolla, save yourselves, bring in paid-apps support now.
answered 2015-11-21 01:40:25 +0300
This post is a wiki. Anyone with karma >75 is welcome to improve it.
(@casanunda: Here. Have an upvote.)
Jolla, if you really desperately need money, why do you still refuse to take it[+]?
[+] Revenue generated by paid app support in Jolla app shop.
answered 2015-10-15 23:18:08 +0300
I was quite shocked that a platform that advanced would not support paid apps (I consider this as a very basic part of the system). Without paid apps, we will never see apps like TomTom/Navigon (turn-by-turn navigation), Plex and so on in a native form. We cannot expect companies to give away their software for free.
In my opinion, mobile platform growth is enormously influenced by the available apps. As Jolla wants to concentrate on software and outsource hardware development to effectively push the platform, I clearly see support for paid apps as a high priority thing.
A comment from the devs would be nice. Maybe I will contact support about this issue soon.
answered 2015-04-14 20:16:17 +0300
Jolla is in the market of making operating systems. More specifically (or so they claim) a secure operating system. The only thing i can complain about on their side, is that they are slow. The younited thing got shut down cause f secure sold it to some us company. No point in keeping it and claim to be a secure system , is there? For the payment apps, it is not so easy. Especially without an ecosystem. Consider they had a store. You pay for an app, that you can also download for free as the software is supposed to be free? Do you see the paradox? Not going to happen. I can tell you, n9 sales of my apps got cannibalized by "free" / re-retailed downloads. The solution? To lock things down. But wait a moment. We were talking about FREE software, right? FREE, and NOT apple style. Lesson? A store does not make developers richer. In free / open source, that is. A store in the classic sense, at least. Not in this free/opensource universe.
So whats left; advertisement. Guess what, jolla target audience HATES ads. No chance there either.
The stella oth, was released afaik. If they are to be after the money (and only after that, as you claim) , why dont they sell all other halves online then? So you see, all I can really complain about - and I do - is that they are slow. Be it intentionally or not, who cares? I still thank them for making a phone i can frigging relate to, for gods sake. If you want to mke money, go with iOS, for the few thousands of eur tops that you will make (unless its a killer app, in which case ill take my hat off to you).
The community could come up with a store option. Its all about community here, right? But guess what, the community cant come up with a store option, because noone knows how to and what type of store it should be in order to be profitable as for example iOS store is.
So you see. The problem here is not jolla. The problem is that noone has yet cracked the way of being profitable in the universe of free sw, with ordinary tools at least. Jolla is trying, and I am amazed - amazed, really, and also proud, even tho I have nothing to do with the company, that they seem to manage. It means they are doing something right, whatever it is.
Come on! free is not open, and viceversa. Even Sailfish OS is not completely open... but anyway, you can offer an open platform at a cost. Why not... Are Jolla selling the phone or the tablet or are distributing for free? inconsistency is what happens... they don't understand that you can be open, secure, whatever, and ask for a fee... the job, work, knowledge must be paid... of course! The promise that Jolla told us, has flaws... and it's because of their executives, that could be very good developers, but they don't know what customers want... and customers want solutions... Jolla does not offer any single solution to a smartphone developer, imagine for the end user!
darius ( 2015-04-14 22:07:31 +0300 )editI definitely agree on the necessity for the payment to happen - I albeit am not quite sure on the way this should happen?
tortoisedoc ( 2015-04-14 22:44:37 +0300 )editPS. Sorry, I can feel your frustration in your post and it is echoing with mines about this paid apps empasse :). My sympathy!
tortoisedoc ( 2015-04-15 00:10:21 +0300 )editI'm sorry too. Jolla promised what can't deliver. And does not understand, that they need developers, challenge, and seduce with a platform, were can have a profit, or at least a compensation. Will Jolla agree to give for free the phone and tablet? Or the TOH? Can you tell me how many of the promises they made, came true? Come on! I bet you whatever you want , if the 10% of jolla phone customers uses it as a primary phone? How many use as sailfish os pure? Because if you buy a Jolla to install android apps, that can not even use google services in a easy way... Come on! You then should buy android alternatives with much better hardware and better price... I did not bought a jolla to install android, I bought because once I trusted that an ecosystem will be made, appealing to developers, content creators, blablabla... But... What do we have? I'll give you am example, apple and google did not know nothing about mobile, they started from scratch, in e days when symbian os, was much more open source than sailfish is today, and when symbian had a 90% market share... The problem is execution, and jolla executives are truly amateurs. Maybe they will knpw how to code, but... Nothing else...
darius ( 2015-04-15 14:08:59 +0300 )editanswered 2015-04-14 17:51:13 +0300
First of all, it's a inconsistency of Jolla philosophy around business. Their philosophy is: I'll do a platform were the only one that makes business is me... but eeeey! help me, give money, trust me... someday in a galaxy far far away you will. Jolla is in the market to make money, and as far as I can see, and understand, they are wolves in sheep's.
Let me argue... First of all, I guess that jolla has sold no more than 10k units of the phone, with just about 6k to 8k customers. The Tablet, it's easy, almost every single jolla phone customer bought the tablet. So, if you have a market of 10k customers, with an outdated phone, an ecosystem that has no apps that are useful, after 2 years... WTF is a tablet nowadays? a tablet without apps to install, for web browsing more than 200 euro? come on!!! Buying now a Jolla phone is burning 250 euro...
The inconsistency is that they ask for money, but they don't want developers make money with the platform. I'll give you an example: In the latest video, the Jolla tablet people powered claim, the COO Marc Dillon, asks for money to make things happen, as a result a tablet... So I tell you Mr.Dillon that if you want quality apps,involced third party developers, they need time, and time is money for everyone, besides Jolla things that it isn't. inconsistency is false promises, Angry birds, United, blabla... Even jolla apps are outdated (calendar, contacts, messaging...) are terrible! make the adjective "smartphone" in Jolla be so overrated...
Give a reason, why as a developer should invest a minute developing a native app. They do not appeal to make business because they want to get the money of a few fans, that misunderstand what's the meaning of open, secure, blabla... How many TOH have they sold? how many Stella Phone have they sold? giving no chance to buy the Stella as TOH? another pickpocket action as an example...
My answer is that they run out of money, they don't have time, and are waiting an acquisition from Nokia again or Samsung, or whatever company... and they just have the money of loyal fans... that believe the claim...
Jolla executives, just have the emotional claim nowadays, nothing else. Third party developers are doing much more than Jolla employers and executives. The platform is dead already. They need to fire the CEO and COO, and leave them as a GURU, or philosophers, nothing else. Jolla needs executives that know how to monetize open platforms.
They need to open the ecosystem, and give power to the developers, the ones that fill the store, the ones that give solutions to customers.These will make store, jolla products more appealing.
Open, does not mean free, and free does not mean open...
p.d: Airbnb is not a real state, and trades with real state, Facebook does not make content, an it's full of content, Uber has no cars, but sells rides... It's about business, if you ask involving people, you have to know what you offer. can give you lots of examples, that understand that the platform, the environment must help business, were everyone gets their part.
answered 2015-04-07 15:41:22 +0300
Hi,
Would be great to hear some news/update on the situation with paid app support from Jolla team. We have less then two months (hopefully) left to SFOS 2 launch with the new Jolla tablet and if there's no possibility for devs to sell their apps, it's hard to expect any real progress in SFOS eco-system development. I think most of us can name a bunch of paid apps he/she misses on Jolla.
I understand that for now all Jolla people are extremly busy with tablet & SFOS 2 preparation to launch, but may be just some words from @cybette?
UPDATE
Half a year passed and now we have support for Flattr. And nothing more. Jolla are you kidding? Is that all and you are really not going to do anything else to implement payed apps in the store? This is just a half measure, not a decision! Why do you insisting so much for us to pay money for apps we need to Google, not to you? I just don't understand.
UPDATE 2
Jolla, if you really desperately need money, why do you still refuse to take it?
@cybette Thanks! Even this is much better then nothing :) Great to hear the work is in progress :)
rburkhanov ( 2015-04-09 23:16:02 +0300 )edit@cybette Thanks for being the first jolla official to write something in this post (the one with the 9th most votes of all) after 15 months (!). But: you can't be serious there is still no roadmap, nothing more tangible to say than "we are doing something but we can't tell you about it". This is the most vague comment possible... I really don't get it. Do you deliberately NOT want to earn money? EVERY other smartphone OS has had an appstore with support for paid apps at the time of the first product's launch (when first iPhone came out, it was not a smartphone). It's an essential part of the ecosystem and an easy way to earn some extra money...
casanunda ( 2015-04-15 13:14:41 +0300 )editYes, even bad news is better than no news, especially on a case which had a schedule earlier. Thanks for sharing, however, I feel sorry for both the developers and the users wanting their top apps. Well, I just hope we'll hear more on this, from you or other sailors, soon. Anything the community can do to help on this @cybette ?
simo ( 2015-04-15 21:28:33 +0300 )editanswered 2015-03-21 10:39:52 +0300
Eleven months ago (April 2014) we learned:
Ahoy!!!
We see the payment support in store as a really important part of our developer offering. We are currently working to support payments in our Jolla Store and Harbour but there are a lot of things for us to do. Our current target is to provide you the monetizing possibility durign the 2nd half of 2014.
In the mean time, you have time to get your apps ready, tested and polished. Also, let us know what additional APIs you need for your Harbour app so that by the time payments are available, your app is ready to sail.
Br, Jolla Store team
Above quoted from here. It's about time for Jolla to at least share an update for this.
answered 2015-01-26 19:48:32 +0300
Well, guys, this discussion makes little sense if Jolla stubbornly pretends not to see it. It is now the THIRTEENTH most voted for topic on this site out of 9200 or so (with just some 15 votes missing to be in the top ten), with ALL the remaining popular topics getting Jolla's response. Just not this one, which is even more frustrating considering that it was started by Jolla themselves (and then never again commented on / referred to with a single word, for 13 months now).
It's not that they're not launching the support for paid apps. It's first of all that they totally refuse to talk about it, as if it was a TABOO subject. The situation would look completely different if we were at least properly informed about their plans - whether at all they're planning to ever do it, and if so then what's the current status of things and when do they hope to have it ready. Even in case of delays, a simple status update would be enough, at least showing that someone works on it at all.
But no. They've chosen to completely ignore this problem and all those waiting for any information. This question was asked multiple times in many places over the past two years, and the ONLY time they've ever responded was a short one-line comment from some Jolla guy on their developer mailinglist in APRIL 2014. Never before, and never again, they bothered to say A WORD on this.
Marc Dillon has just launched a blog covering their plans and goals. Guess what, not a single word about support for paid apps can be found there.
It is simply RUDE and DISRESPECTFUL to treat like this all those developers waiting for YEARS (yes, it's been YEARS now since people like me ported their apps to Sailfish OS in early 2013 hoping to be able to release them soon) for even just a small piece of information. No one forces Jolla to provide support for paid apps - it's their platform and they can do with it whatever they want. But so stubbornly and insolently refusing to even just INFORM whether developers should be still wasting their time waiting for them to say A WORD is just unacceptable.
Kindly note: I am NOT in any way demanding the actual support for paid apps. I am only expecting JUST ABOUT ANY INFORMATION. Nothing more than a simple: should we still wait or should we go. Please don't tell me that after TWENTY MONTHS of waiting such expectations are exaggerated.
It is completely irrelevant that Jolla is a "small and poor company". It does not take Microsoft's budget and Google's staff to just PROPERLY INFORM - even just post a short response/update in this thread from time to time (or simply clearly state that they are NOT going to ever provide it), that's all it takes. Wasn't it all meant to be widely open to the community voice and transparent? Being an individual freelance developer I am "small and poor" too, and clearly no one from Jolla gives a flying ** about such developers (even though we are willing to SUPPORT this platform -- despite it not being able to provide us with any measurable profit), so I am no longer buying that "small and poor" sh*t.
I guess I'll give them another month or two max, and then I'll just go. We're not turtles, we can't live 120 years waiting for Jolla to even just tell us if they are ever going to let us release our apps for their platform or not. We wanted to support this platform with our apps, but all we got in response was total silence. I'd keep waiting if I could at least see that anyone wants developers like me on this platform. But if all we get back is total silence then it actually means "get lost, this platform doesn't need you".
I do agree with my-jolla's general thrust - the lack of response from Jolla is a bit bewildering. Even a 'we're working on it' or 'there's other things we need to do first' or anything would be helpful, rather than the silence. The lack of native apps is a bit of a problem, not a huge one because of Android cover, but still, I'd rather use a native app than an Android one, not least because I guess most people here bought a Jolla precisely because they didn't want to rely entirely on Android/IOS etc for their apps and whatnot.
I would be more than happy to see a Jolla store that is as my-jolla (I think it was him/her) has stated in the past - contains some paid-for apps that have passed a high QA standard, and genuinely enrich the Jolla experience. Either that, or have a prominent 'donate' button instead of a 'buy' button. Either way would see the number of native apps increase - and furthermore, the strict QA method could well mean that the Jolla store would see a rise in decent, well made apps and not +00,000's of poorly made, pointless apps that just provide app-store fodder.
Highmore ( 2015-01-26 20:44:08 +0300 )editCheck the last sentences: https://together.jolla.com/question/77783/why-do-i-need-an-account-to-access-jolla-store/?answer=77860#post-id-77860
nthn ( 2015-01-26 20:47:46 +0300 )edit@nthn While I am EXTREMELY grateful for the link you provided, my point still stands.
It is just a very basic side note in a response to a question about something different, merely a short mention, hard to find by all those interested specifically in it, and it does not say absolutely anything but what they said in April 2014, almost a quotation.
As I wrote, I think I am really not exaggerating that I expect (after so many months of patiently waiting) that this topic finally gets a SERIOUS treatment from Jolla. Not a one-line reply once a year deep inside some thread (about something completely different) on Jolla's mailinglist, not a side note in an answer to some other unrelated question on this site (while this very thread has been created by themselves specifically to cover this topic and for months it has been within top 20 most voted for topics, now 11th of all, really hard to miss), and merely just stating that "they're working on it and consider it a corner stone", which is what I've heard already a year ago. It takes a SERIOUS, informative, official statement, and an open discussion.
For big developer companies it is of absolutely no problem (and interest) whether Jolla will allow paid apps or not. They make big money elsewhere, and probably won't ever bother to do anything for this small platform. It is small developer companies and individual freelance developers who Jolla needs to take care of, as only them will want to support this tiny ecosystem and help it grow. And for them the time they spent on getting familiar with the platform, waiting months (or years) to finally be able to release their apps, and so on, directly translates to lost other opportunities and lost income that they would have made if they spent that time elsewhere. Jolla really needs to quickly comprehend it or they'll lose such people, for who revenue from app sales is often their main source of income, so whether to keep waiting or stop wasting time becomes an urgent decision to make.
Jolla proved many times that they know well how to properly communicate when it comes to topics which THEY consider important. Some things they say literally ad nauseam - on twitter, facebook, their website, wherever possible. See how they didn't have absolutely any problems with communicating to tens of thousands of people that they're launching a tablet, or many other things like that. Only this topic has since ever been treated so poorly that such a one sentence long mention deep inside some other thread makes us almost climaxing that they said ANYTHING about it after 10 months of silence.
But OK, I'm giving them one more credit of hope and I'll wait another month or two. Then, if nothing changes, I'll just go with no further complaints.
On a different note, as for "The lack of native apps is a bit of a problem, not a huge one because of Android cover, but still", well, on BlackBerry 10 people also were using Android apps until native apps started coming in decent amounts. But now that tens of thousands of native apps are available for BB10, everyone very clearly prefers native ones, and Android apps are used only where a native one still isn't available yet. And that even though BB10's Android compatibility is FAR more superior than Jolla's. Even better, BlackBerry also has a "Built for BlackBerry" program which only accepts apps which pass additional rigourous tests, so that the BfB designation guarantees for an app's superior quality and usability. Once I got some of my apps BfB approved, their sales increased by an order of magnitude. This clearly shows how native apps are MUCH MORE WANTED than Android ones, if they only exist that is. Those who say that Android apps are all Sailfish OS needs just DELUDE themselves because for now they don't have much comparison with how native apps would look better, work faster, integrate with the OS deeper, etc.
my-jolla ( 2015-01-26 23:35:23 +0300 )editAsked: 2013-12-30 11:45:57 +0300
Seen: 12,967 times
Last updated: Nov 16 '17
I consider it important that pure Sailfish applications can be chargeable. Otherwise there does not arise new ecosystem. Pay compensation produce the quality and the motivation to do more native Sailfish applications.
Tuokki ( 2014-01-02 23:06:39 +0300 )editi hope they do not implement in app purchases!!! i tend to stay away from these applications as i feel being taken hostage for some silly feature!
skrokhmal ( 2014-01-03 22:58:27 +0300 )edit@shrokhmal Hmm, on the contrary I think in-app purchases are even more important than supporting paid apps. I don't generally install apps that want money before I can even try them, but I'd gladly upgrade to become a paying user using an in-app purchase when I enjoy using a certain app.
Thorbjørn ( 2014-01-03 23:27:16 +0300 )editdeveloper releases an upgrade to an application with some little addition and requires to pay for this addition, and then again and then again? he already got my support by me paying for an app, why would i want to pay for updates? just being greedy. we all have our opinions!
skrokhmal ( 2014-01-04 01:03:04 +0300 )edit@skrokhmal you should develop an app or two, put them on a marketplace (any), and then write a blog post about your feelings once you've been to the other side. The market will sort out the so called "overly greedy" in time. No need to get mad at anybody trying to earn a living with a useful app.
lkraav ( 2014-01-04 01:09:08 +0300 )edit