Suggestion: Setting to turn off sound level warning

asked 2013-12-24 22:37:25 +0300

11640 ●82 ●101 ●103

http://www.msknight.com/

updated 2017-05-22 23:36:50 +0300

NOTE - Bumped after conversation with Jolla staff, bumping an old thread where the issue is still relevant/active and hasn't been officially answered as an issue Jolla will take up, or has rejected... is permissible as a way of keeping these things alive.

I get the European mandated warning about audio levels whenever I'm connecting to an audio device ... but not all my audio devices are headphones. I mean, I appreciate being given the warning, but I am totally fed up with my volume being knocked down and being faced with the warning every time I connect to something.

I have been caught shouting at the phone, "I get it already!"

I also use high impedance headphones which require extra power. It is not possible for the phone to know how much actual db is being generated at the ear. The entire warning itself is unreasonable and not practical in my opinion.

How about, at the least, a switch in the developer options ... after all, it's perfectly legit to want to not be nagged if you're developing software... right ;-)

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I agree, once you have answered the "I understand" prompt it should stop bugging me about it later on. At least, there should be a way to turn the prompt off completely, unless there is some sort of law that prevents from doing just that.

Matoking ( 2013-12-24 22:52:43 +0300 )edit

Agreed. Reasonable to restore notice after a reset to factory etc.

Faz ( 2013-12-25 05:22:47 +0300 )edit

Yah it's annoying, i use my phone with external headphone amp, and need to get to volume up, and then i control the volume from the amp.

Whippler ( 2013-12-25 11:00:23 +0300 )edit

CE certification requires that the user is nagged every 20h (EN 60950-1/A-12).

Kontio ( 2013-12-25 15:36:12 +0300 )edit

@Kontio They don't have to know... ;)

gukke ( 2013-12-30 03:28:48 +0300 )edit

To me it seems that the volume setting is too low in every aspect. Compared to N9 all voices are way lower. In ringing phone and in aplications.

Pantteri ( 2014-01-01 23:54:58 +0300 )edit

This is not really an answer. Please select "More..."->"Repost as question comment".

Tanghus ( 2014-01-02 02:06:23 +0300 )edit

Maybe the setting could be "output type" and a choice between headphones and "other" with no notifications shown for "other" Or (if you think this is confusing for people who would expect different behavior too - i.e. line level, etc) it could be a CLI setting for people inclined to hack the device.

icebox ( 2014-01-10 08:27:20 +0300 )edit

It doesn't hurt in my opinion to remind people.

Macilaci457 ( 2014-01-10 17:16:27 +0300 )edit

@Kontio I seriously thought you were joking... until I googled it :D

hana ( 2014-01-12 00:22:51 +0300 )edit

Where is it defined ? http://tuvamerica.com/mailer/EN60950Bulletin_September2012.pdf

Kaacz ( 2014-01-17 13:24:12 +0300 )edit

If that is really what the regulations say, then how come all the other smartphones and audio players do not have this bug? do all the manufacturers pay a fine or sth.?

bennypr0fane ( 2014-01-26 23:50:18 +0300 )edit

@bennypr0fane it depends on where you live. Most devices with media capabilities I have had so far either had an unbelievable low max volume or a nag "feature" - and it really annoys me, since I very often plug my devices into my home stereo or car hifi, of course there's no reason to be warned about volume if the device doesn't know the current volume of the amplifier.

tokaru ( 2014-02-28 13:03:28 +0300 )edit

tokaru, that doesn't answer my question though. How come none my previous phones, purchased here in my country through "regular" national channels, don't have this kind of annoyance?

bennypr0fane ( 2014-02-28 15:14:16 +0300 )edit

@bennypr0fane maybe because the manufacturer didn't fully comply with EU regulations. My old device did have this crap. I agree, it annoying, but it's not the manufacturer's fault. Write a letter to whomever is responible in the EU parliament for a "fix". For a "workaroud" there should be a setting somewhere to disable this (like 802.11a channel).

bart ( 2014-02-28 15:48:13 +0300 )edit

It might have answered your questions if you were living outside of Europe, which I don't know ;-) If you're inside I am not sure... whichever media device with headphone jack I have bought within the last years, has this nagging feature built in :(

tokaru ( 2014-02-28 15:51:03 +0300 )edit

I'm in Austria, EU regulations. the devices I'm talking about are Nokia N900 and C7, so maybe that's why Nokia phones went down: failure to comply with regulations! :-D

bennypr0fane ( 2014-02-28 16:02:17 +0300 )edit

Maybe some phones are older than the regulations.

hana ( 2014-03-07 18:09:30 +0300 )edit

I think a problem is that the warnings and max level settings are not really based on actual sound output, they are just overall limits. If I am watching a youtube video with low sound level, I need to raise the volume. My bluetooth headphones have a separate volume control that can be set rather low. There are many cases when the actual sound output is low, but the warning still appears.

00prometheus ( 2014-03-21 04:24:36 +0300 )edit

This app should help you to get rid of the warning : https://openrepos.net/content/penguin/eu-soundlimit-disabler

Dam ( 2014-03-29 18:43:19 +0300 )edit

The warning timeout is way too low. My running headphones are wearing out and full volume is needed to hear anything at all. But while I'm still running, the warning re-appears and the volume is cut, annoying me to no end since I can't dig up my phone until I'm back.

Another silly law to annoy and limit people, with no practical use as anybody who wants to listen with high volume can and will still do so.

wvh ( 2016-12-14 13:59:00 +0300 )edit

Bumping thread - after conversation with Jolla staff, bumping an old thread where the issue is still relevant/active, is permissible as a way of keeping these things alive.

I will be editing the original text to suggest that the option is included in the developer options, sort of unofficially because surely if you're developing software, you don't want to get nagged all the time while you're working on something... right ;-)

msknight ( 2017-05-22 23:27:00 +0300 )edit

5 Answers

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answered 2014-01-11 22:21:59 +0300

Vaskinn
286 ●5 ●6 ●12

updated 2014-01-12 00:54:03 +0300

Following the hint from rainisto I edited /etc/pulse/mainvolume-listening-time-notifier.conf (after making a backup obviously) and removed the 'hf' and 'bta2dp' from 'mode-list', leaving 'lineout' there for safety when using wired headphones. I then rebooted (maybe unnecessary) and tested. Connecting through bluetooth I got no volume warning but using a wire I got the warning (as desired). There is also a timeout that can probably be edited to get longer between warnings but be careful not to go too high or you may exceed the maximum value of whatever variable it gets stored in and break something.

Also please be aware that doing this you remove a safety feature and could damage your hearing. Use common sense and don't blame anyone but yourself.

Please don't close the question as this is just a temporary fix requiring developer mode, and not a permanent solution that's also available to non-technical users.

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I need remove this stupid thing from wired connection and BT a2dp. Empty mode-list isn't solution. Unfortunately leaving "hs" not working. .. maybe PA recognize headphones/active repro as HS.

OK, i use "eci" in mode-list. Working, stupid EU terror is done. :)

Kaacz ( 2014-01-15 23:38:27 +0300 )edit

Thanks Vaskinn - I edited the .conf file but it didn't work at first. I left the comma after 'lineout'. Removed the comma and all is working, no more crap EU warning! (I don't own headphones anyway), but was fed up with the nag every time I wanted to bluetooth audio to my PC. Nice work-around! :)

Spam Hunter ( 2014-03-05 04:50:41 +0300 )edit

F* off EU .... hacked all out! :D:D:D:

Kaacz ( 2014-03-20 22:26:23 +0300 )edit

answered 2014-03-20 09:23:39 +0300

Penguin

1307 ●19 ●27 ●31

http://I.have/

updated 2014-06-11 19:40:28 +0300

Key points from EU legislation regarding personal music player sound level warnings:

Based on a sound limit of 85 dB considered safe under normal conditions of use.
The user can choose to override the limit so that the sound level can be increased up to maximum 100 dB.
If the user overrides the limit, warnings about the risks must be repeated every 20 hours of listening time.
Transition period ends on 24 January 2013. After this date, industry is expected to apply the standards to their products.
Standards are voluntary. However, conforming products benefit from a presumption of conformity to the safety requirements of the applicable EU legislation on the risk of hearing damage.
CENELEC will now develop "smart" methods for protection against excessive sound levels based on the measurement of sound dose.

It is just interesting how Apple seems to be only mobile music player and phone manufacturer who can read until very last paragraph of the legislation and standards where it is said that all these mandatory warnings are voluntary. That is why you can completely disable the warning in iOS devices when it first time warns you. Standard applied. I wonder how much would have benefit from conformity to the safety requirements compared to current solution where they read the volutary text too.

Standard also defines that it is applicable only to the devices sold with personal head phones as warning level must be (still volutary) adjusted for head phones accompanying with the music player device.

Also when carefully read it can be found that standard does not apply to other sound sources than music. E.g. for phone calls these (still volutary) limitations can be automatically turned off. Those are not either applicable when speaker mode in use or when device is connected to external amplifier, e.g. stereo system with cable or bluetooth or HF car kit.

Similar legislation exist in other countries than in EU area too. However this EU legistation has also one interesting point: It is applicable only to the devices sold AND used in EU. Carry the device out from EU even just temporatily and these mandatory (still voluntary) requirements do not apply.

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So:

Can we have an option to disable this "feature"?

I dont need a continuous reminder that listening to audio I can barely hear (since the source is so quiet) might damage my ears.

vasavr ( 2014-06-11 21:52:40 +0300 )edit

On Windows Phone handsets you only receive this warning the first time you attach a headset to your phone, and attempt to raise volume over a certain level.

On Jolla, the question could maybe then be asked after every update. For most Jollafarians this anyway would mean, that about once a month you would see the dialogue, which would in my view be more in line with EU's directive than on for eg. afore mentioned platform. But it would be seriously less bugging.

cjp ( 2014-06-26 12:49:46 +0300 )edit

answered 2014-01-11 21:15:02 +0300

rainisto

6348 ●69 ●98 ●112

moderator

Currently legislation forbids to disable it totally. But I do agree that currently it nags too often. Maybe in future the values will be tweakable.

With developer mode you could disable them quite easily since pulse audio settings are cleartext. But unfortunately you need to figure settings location out by yourself.

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That may explain why it's there but doesn't change the fact that it gives a bad user experience. Does anyone have the text of the relevant pieces legislation to look for a way to work around it?

Vaskinn ( 2014-01-11 21:35:56 +0300 )edit

@Vaskinn great! You should convert the comment to an answer.

lk ( 2014-01-11 22:58:35 +0300 )edit

I am almost sure that regulations maybe require the warning to be displayed at least once, but not each and every time the volume is set above the threshold level, and probably not two separate warnings. If that was the case, wouldn't all the smartphones and media players have that? bcs they don't.

bennypr0fane ( 2014-01-26 23:43:35 +0300 )edit

I don't believe the regulations are really this strict. it's gotta be a mistake. all the warnings I've seen have a "don't show this again"option, after which you accept full responsibility and the OEM can't be held liable for what you do after that.really we can't have this bugging people always.

bennypr0fane ( 2014-01-26 23:48:02 +0300 )edit

For me the bigger issue is not the warning itself (I would be content for the time being just to acknowledge the warning and carry on with my day listening to music), but how often it shows up. If the regulations state it "must be repeated every 20 hours of listening time" as stated by @Penguin, then three times during 90 minutes of continuous listening is obviously too often. (I was first outside, walking and then inside, shopping, so had to adjust volume a couple of times.)

Kayakist ( 2014-03-20 14:13:54 +0300 )edit

answered 2017-05-22 23:27:33 +0300

msknight

11640 ●82 ●101 ●103

http://www.msknight.com/

Bumping thread - after conversation with Jolla staff, bumping an old thread where the issue is still relevant/active, is permissible as a way of keeping these things alive.

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answered 2017-05-23 00:51:20 +0300

olf
10393 ●104 ●201 ●158

The Patch "Disable volume warning" for Patchmanager 2 from Warehouse does exactly what you all want, per GUI (i.e. without editing /etc/pulse/mainvolume-listening-time-notifier.conf manually). As this Patch already exists for quite a while, I just wondered why nobody mentioned it before.

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Thanks for the heads up on the patch, but this isn't about patches. It's about what Jolla include in the OS itself.

msknight ( 2017-05-23 07:53:30 +0300 )edit

This seems to be a recurring tune here on TJC:

"It's not about having a specific functionality at hand, it's about getting it from Jolla."

I do hope Jolla cares much less about these (factually non-) issues, than about advancing SailfishOS in general (more supported devices, Bluez5, AARCH64 support, and much more).

olf ( 2017-05-25 01:07:51 +0300 )edit

Suggestion: Setting to turn off sound level warning

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