[Official announcement] Supporting larger microSD cards in the Jolla Tablet - Your input is needed!

To me interoperability with the rest of the world is important - I want to see my digital camera pictures/videos on a larger screen while on the go, for example.

Q about the licence: Would SD card with 32Gb fat partition and 96Gb open file system partition comply with SDHC standard?

@simo... Lol, great idea... If that would work...

For me, I use at the moment an ext4 formated 64GB card which should be there till I will by my 128GB card. Encryption with LUKS would be awesome. To point it a litte bit more clear out I see the card slot as an internally memory extension slot. For me it could also name it TF-slot like in a lot off Chinese devices is labeled. I never use this kind of card to exchange data.

why would have put micro sd cards??.. just increase the size of the internal memory ..

I actually completely understand your point and agree with you. There's no other option than to support the standard even if it's not the standard you would like to have. That said, I would certainly like to see support for more open file systems.

yeah support is given.. its not so desperate right??... the main aim is to project the operating system and its features .... and after that everything will come and fall into its place..

So how does this address the problem of using crowdfunding money for paying to MS patents?

What about actually useful proposal to add exFAT support only on demand? I.e. those who need it will pay for it? And Jolla won't be advertising SD compatibility while doing it, so trademarks issues can be avoided (it's insane for anyone to use trademarks to enforce patent licensing if you think of it, but it's besides the point).

*SD, SDHC and SDXC are trademarks or registered trademarks of SD-3C, LLC in the United States, other countries or both. Also, miniSD, microSD, miniSDHC, microSDHC, microSDXC, smartSD, smartSDHC, SDIO and miniSDIO are all trademarks or registered trademarks of SD-3C, LLC in the United States, other countries or both.

It's really difficult to avoid those when talking about storage cards.

@Stskeeps: true, but IF there is no hardware change coming with the microSDXC certification, so you just go on advertising microSDHC. And the App that is available for download advertises microSDXC.

It is like Blackberry did, kind of. They advertised microSDHC <=32GB. Then at some point there was a software update that "brought" microSDXC compatibility. Only here it is a paid update available from the store...

So can Jolla just not mention anything about SD? What does constitute "advertising support"? Or at least not mention anything about SDXC.

Also, can this support be advertised as on demand like above? Or it will also violate some trademark restrictions?

@Stskeeps: btw. would Jolla also have to pay the license (exFAT) per installed device for Sailfish OS ports to other smartphone/tablet hardware? i.e. Would this licensing issue prevent the availability of "free" ports to other hardware (hardware not from Jolla)?

"SD logo also assures users of compatibly. So, this means we need to support exFAT as a file system." "Simply put, this is a compatibility expected by consumers, especially for a tablet which is principally a media consumption device. "

I do want to support open source. I do not want to pay M$, But I totally understand and accept those arguments in the sake of best possible reception of Jolla Tablet among average consumers. And that in the sake of making Jolla and Sailfish to succeed. That is the reason we should accept Jolla's proposed compromise, witch is in short: exFat included, but offer special alternative FS for those who don't like exFAT. What that special is, is up to the community.

If I understand this Official announcement correctly, the exFAT support is going to happen, no way back anymore. I presume that many Jolla tablet contributors are expecting it to be there (Goal nearly achieved), and SDXC cards to work straight out of box. They cannot be let down.

Quote from Indiegogo comments: benjamingsharma 1 hour ago "The stretch goal I care most about is the 128 GB MicroSD card compatibility, although I believe that’s just a software upgrade (new driver), and Jolla should be able to raise the last $40k easily enough."

I bet this guy would not be happy to hear after the goal is reached, new annoucement says "sorry you cant have this after all/You must pay extra."

Best regars: Matti R, please everybody Sail Happily :)

If I understand this Official announcement correctly, the exFAT support is going to happen, no way back anymore

Is that the case? Because it's very unclear from the announcement, and it sounds like Jolla asks for more input on this. And Jolla didn't comment why they can't make exFAT support provided on demand and not mandatory.

@shmerl I presume that Jolla asks more imput on: "which type of alternative open solutions we should include in the Jolla Tablet."Not input for: exFAT replacement/optional paid upgrade.

"why they can't make exFAT support provided on demand" (how do make your quotes look nice?)

I guess because Jolla can't afford to let down them, who expect it to happen with the first Goal, without further investment.

Edit: Confirmation or clarifying on this announcement could be in place indeed.

The case is that the upcoming feature has been published and money is already gathered based on this. Given that, there's an unfortunate promise to keep. However

• everybody who paid the tablet before this promise can see SDXC support as "free new feature" (No more money needed from them, they just get some more if others do)
• everybody who paid the tablet after this promise can see SDXC support as "free new feature" as well, because the price of the tablet is the same as before this promise

So, actually I haven't seen any problem in using crowdsourced money to pay for MS. I know many would be happier if this payment would go to some other company, even for some other purpose - but now that someone has managed to build a memory card monopoly, Jolla has not much to say. Tablets are expected to be supported and compatible.

What we can learn about the higly voted post request-please-dont-use-crowdfunded-money-to-pay-for-extra-patent-licenses Is that next time it might be nice to poll the possible new features in smilar campaign here in advance. Now it was a decision made by Jolla, next time we might have another decision made Doing It Together

Delivering this kind of an improvement in decision making would be a perfect answer to those angry about where the crowdsourced money is currently going to.

@dac think it's fair to say that those kind of things due to their tying to kernel and hardware is HW adaptation specific. We don't have MP3 codecs on SailfishOS for other devices, as an example. Should not prevent anything.

which type of alternative open solutions we should include in the Jolla Tablet.

@Matti R: That's a good question, though completely unrelated to the issue at hand and isn't any kind of solution to the raised problem. So I really don't see how this is proposed as a solution. Sure, it's good to have more filesystems supported. But the original problem wasn't about their lack, but about exFAT being mandatory.

The case is that the upcoming feature has been published and money is already gathered based on this.

@simo: Same way money were gathered before this feature (undesirable to many backers) was published. So it's not perfect either way already.

Making it "free feature" doesn't help really since these money are cumulative. Making it "you need - you pay" makes more sense.

@Ghost: "why would have put micro sd cards??.. just increase the size of the internal memory .."

If it's increased to at least 128 GB then that would be ok for me too. But I think it's too late for such changes and the people which want to use the microSD card for data transfer won't be happy.

@Stskeeps: As the tablet originally was announced with SD card support up to 32 GB I assume this configuration (without supporting and licensing exFAT) was legal. So leaving it that way and don't add SDXC support for those which don't want to buy an SDXC option should still be legal?

Also a clear statement would be helpful if the originally planned hardware is sufficient to support SDXC cards (up to 128 GB) or if a hardware upgrade is required for SDXC card support.

If we want Jolla to survive and keep the idea of freedom and openness, sometimes we have to prefer steps that aren't free and open! Although I don't need proprietary file systems like exFAT (because I know how to handle Linux-FS) I think that it'll important to make the Jolla tablet mostly compatible. If a large amount of people should buy, it has to be comfortable and compatible. So we can choose: The last fully open device that only freaks will order - or a "trojan horse" has to be placed in Apple-Android-Windows-dominated market!

@Ruslanowitsch: This doesn't contradict in any way the proposal to enable exFAT on demand (as an extra paid feature). So far Jolla didn't comment anything about why it's not possible to do it that way.

Who cares about the SDXC trademark? Support of 128 GB + different file system (without the officail logo) is more than fine.... MS is rich enough ;-) Remembered me a little bit about the DVD in the past.

@eric: "It is very likely that the hardware in the Jolla Tablet is capable of supporting cards of higher size than 32GB. But that doesn't automatically make it "SDXC". Because of that trademark, even using the term "SD" requires that you are compatible. And the SD logo also assures users of compatibly. So, this means we need to support exFAT as a file system."

Wasn't that already the case with the originally announced tablet configuration before you added the stretch goals? Does that mean the originally announced tablet configuration was "very likely" illegal?

Even more, as the hardware of the Jolla phone obviously supports microSD cards with more than 32 GB and has no exFAT support, does that mean the Jolla phone is illegal?

Sorry, I'm a bit confused. Either the above argumentation is flawed and we do not"need to support exFAT as a file system." or Jolla is selling an illegal product for more than a year?

I still don't get the fuzz. As for SD cards, compatibility is key. I don't need an exchangeable storage medium at all if I can't just take it out of my old {phone|tablet|media player|...} and plug it into my new tablet without reformatting it to a new file system and thereby losing everything that's on it. This is the reason why the SD Consortium insists on these compatibility guidelines... and rightfully so.

The only reason I've heard so far against using exFAT (which means: official SDXC support) is that it is a proprietary format and licenses have to be paid. This is a reason, but not a valid one. It would be a valid reason only if SDXC support would be the only non-open technology (trademark, certification,...) Jolla needs to pay (crowdfunded) money for. As this isn't the case (and can't be in this industry), we must either have exactly this discussion about each of the licenses used in any Jolla product, now or in the future, or just very quickly forget this topic and do what needs to be done.

How about outsourcing exFAT and microSDXC into an software update or app, and for those who bought a perk this is a "free option", meaning 0.00USD. Then they will pay the royalties for the ones that took the free upgrade to ms, distribute the update to them, and the rest stays as it is, not supporting ms. so no one then has the feeling to have paid for something useless. And for the product tablet they later sell in their shop they can make this app or update patch for a small fee or however they want.

This is a reason, but not a valid one.

It's a perfectly valid reason for those who oppose proprietary lock-in which especially involves software patent encumbered technology. And yes, this is the only such feature which was added as a stretch goal after many already contributed to the campaign.

How about outsourcing exFAT and microSDXC into an software update or app

That can be a compromise yes. Please propose it as a separate "answer", not as a comment.

@shmerl answers here as far as i saw get converted anyway... I think that was proposed in the poll already. My addition is just the 0.00USD for the ones who took the perk and want exFAT. so that less people get pissed... I'm currently digging into the SDALA to see whether there could be a chance.

@shmerl: Those who contributed to the campaign before the strech goal automatically contributed to patent-encumbered, proprietary technologies other than exFAT. It's safe to assume they don't oppose such technology, otherwise they wouldn't have supported the campaign at all.

If you claim you're serious about openness and don't want 1 cent of your money to be used for proprietary technologies, you're more credible if you don't only reduce this point of view to one single file system that you chose to make a drama about.

It's safe to assume they don't oppose such technology,

Controversial things should not be assumed without consulting. It's common sense.

@shmerl: It wasn't controversial before you decided to make it by painting a wrong picture about the situation. There also was no indication it ever could be controversial: common sense dictates that people who had already accepted proprietary technology wouldn't suddenly change their minds in the middle of the campaign.

What's interesting is that while you keep repeating your claims over and over, you ran out of answers quickly when we started to ask you certain questions. For example during the whole week, you were unable to answer why you're OK with patent-encumbered multimedia codecs but turn into a fighter for freedom when it comes to exFAT. Talking about about common sense...

@shmerl You keep saying it's “controversial” like we all agree it is. I would think most people are oblivious to the issue or if they are aware, take the pragmatic view that in order to get feature X, it involves paying a licence.

Don't agree with "You can't do tricks or workarounds like re-format with another filesystem on device. It has to work the moment you insert the SD card."

-doing these "tricks" on any consumer camera since ..

-Asking professional assistance for formatting is not a shameful thing. Format once and forget about it. Better than earning money to upgrade your fixed 32GB emmc to a 64GB emmc.

-Jolla is clearly confusing SD card and Micro SD card (the one they offer a reader for) usage scenario's. The Micro SD, being very small, generally gets inserted and forgotten about.