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Together answers by Jolla

asked 2015-06-25 20:42:42 +0200

simo gravatar image

updated 2015-06-30 10:26:37 +0200

Most of you know I've kept myself up to date with TJC usage, contributing my part the best I can. Just for interest, I updated myself of the current activity, and my findings were worth a question. I picked...

  • 2 months time period (25.4 - 25.6.2015)
  • 15 most active Jolla Sailors (marked with Jolla logo)

...and found 43 answers by them

Meanwhile on the same time period:

  • 600 new questions have been asked
  • 453 of these being without an accepted answer

Community and the mods here have done great job trying to get issues adressed and questions answered, but many of the questions are for Jolla to answer. The current situation is leading towards usabilty disaster, and answering rate of 1/working day from 15 Sailors is, should I say, something nobody would like to see. Possible reasons:

  • Bad written questions, difficult to answer to
  • Too busy, limited resources
  • Flooding portal, difficult to find what to answer to
  • Unclear tagging

I opened this question to ask us all: How can we improve, both in writing new questions and getting them answered? Would Jolla have some wishes to the people asking the question? Would you have any suggestion (more than "please answer faster") maybe fixing the situation? Let's work it out!

Edit: Lifting up this comment by @chris.adams for contributing a lot into this question with his opinions:

Personal opinions, but I think there are a few reasons for what you see:

  • 1) Most sailors are unwilling to comment at all on topics outside of their expertise, in order to avoid giving incorrect > information by accident
  • 2) Some sailors are more active on TJC than others, which means that some topic areas get less responses than other > topic areas, due to (1).
  • 3) In many cases, the TJC post reports a bug or offers a suggestion which we create an internal bug report for. This is because a bug report has wider internal visibility, more concrete actionability, and clearly defined responsibility. It may seem like no progress is being made from the outside (because the TJC post isn't regularly updated with our findings or internal discussions and whatnot) if all of the activity occurs on the internal bug report. In this case, if the person who files the internal bug report is not also the person responsible for implementing the code change (e.g., it's not their area), then the person who is responsible for the code change may not update the TJC post (either due to not knowing that the TJC post exists, if it wasn't mentioned in the internal report, or due to being less active on TJC themselves).
  • 4) Everyone has been extremely busy over the last few months, with work which has been internally prioritised by product management and with bugs which have been reported by internal testers. In extremely busy feature development periods, TJC tends not to get as much attention from developers than when we're in bugfixing mode, I think. Finally, the sheer volume of content on TJC is somewhat overwhelming. Tags help, but not fully, in my opinion. One possible way of improving the visibility of what the community considers to be the most important issues awaiting Jolla response might be to have someone raise the top 10 voted on issues (which have yet to receive at response) at the Sailfish Community Weekly Meeting. That would ensure follow-up and raise visibility, I think.

Thanks!

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Comments

7

Is your expectation that everything's answered by Jolla here? I was under the impression that TJC is meant to be a community platform - you know, users helping each other. From a commercial point of view (at least that's how it is in my company), such platforms are created so that not every user question is directed at a customer service department.

I guess that if you want answers by Jolla, you need to write to their helpdesk.

ossi1967 ( 2015-06-25 22:00:54 +0200 )edit
2

@ossi1967 Agreed! But I think the question is still interesting... we just need to consider the questions tagged "bug" etc. that actually should warrant some kind of action. Imo those should all have a tracked-by-jolla banner as long as they are open (and maybe with X votes). I realize that this means closing bugs with "CBA", but that's better than stuff laying around forever. Case in point: https://together.jolla.com/question/71883/percent-encoded-tel-links-broken-becomes-2/ (any suggestions on how I messed that one up are very welcome)

attah ( 2015-06-25 22:20:54 +0200 )edit
3

@ossi1967 Thanks for the opinion, but please read in the end what I'm asking from us all. Collaboration is the key indeed, and I hope we find some solutions - I hope you can admit there is a problem?

simo ( 2015-06-25 22:27:53 +0200 )edit
2

@attah The question you linked to is a perfect example of how lousy TJC works as a bug tracker. Jolla tried to give more status infos once via special tags, but that never worked very well.

I remember that for this very reason in one of the community meetings the browser team kindly asked to post browser-related bugs in their bug tracker rather than on TJC.

ossi1967 ( 2015-06-25 22:37:32 +0200 )edit
2

@simo There are several problems IMHO. But the problem you see - as far as I understand, sorry if I'm wrong - seems to come from the expectation that sailors are supposed to answer questions here on TJC. Coming from TMO, I never had this expectation in the first place. From my POV, we don't have a problem in this regard, quite on the contrary: We're lucky because at least sometimes sailors join in and help.

ossi1967 ( 2015-06-25 22:42:07 +0200 )edit

3 Answers

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8

answered 2015-06-30 11:11:34 +0200

r0kk3rz gravatar image

updated 2015-06-30 11:38:18 +0200

One of the things I have noticed is the lack of updating relevant TJC Questions by a Jolla Sailor after things like Upgrade Releases and Iteration Meetings.

Myself and others have taken on some of that responsibility by adding roadmap tags, and updating TJC Questions with a link to the relevant Iteration mailing list email, or to the Sailfish OS Roadmap. But it would look a lot better coming from someone with a 'Jolla' next to their name as it shows community engagement.

For me this is about showing the community that you care and getting the credit you deserve out of the things that you guys actually put in the hard work to implement, test, and release, but I can understand that when the pressure is on its these 'soft' areas that take the first hit.

Sometimes @bijjal even links TJC Questions in the Iteration Notes, yet those questions do not get updated with even the roadmap tag! It's a simple thing, even if slightly time consuming, but I think it will be worth it.

Every presentation from Jolla I have seen at PR events has mentioned TJC as a big selling point, yet almost all communication from Jolla is in other channels, the blog, the sailfishos roadmap, the mailing list, irc .etc. These things all have their place, but more emphasis on TJC as an information platform is needed.

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7

answered 2015-08-14 11:03:24 +0200

simo gravatar image

updated 2015-08-14 11:32:20 +0200

One option might be using a new tag, jolla-answer-required which would help sailors at Jolla to filter questions only for them, and for other people willing to answer questions, filter them out using ignored tags in side panel. This tag could be listed as option for new questions, so the OP could directly use it if she/he is going to accept only a Jolla employee answer

The reason itself doesn't seem to be related on resources so much, as Jolla is responding very fast to questions presented at Jolla Blog and social media. About current Care response times, I have no idea about. But due to this unbalanced situation:

Should we move our questions (meaning only the questions to be answered by Sailors only) out from TJC (suggested by @ossi1967 in the question comments), or should Jolla move some of those resources here?

Moving those questions out, pros and cons:

  • TJC would be a platform only for questions to be answered by any Sailor (Jolla, community, customers). Platform would be cleaner, and people wouldn't have to wait for answers for so long
  • TJC would remain as Jolla's "listening platform"
  • Blog / Twitter or other social media sites are not as good as discussion platforms, but questions to be answered by Sailors only might not require as much discussion
  • Voting feature missing

Moving some resources in, pros and cons:

  • It would bring all questions under the same umbrella, also equalizing the response times
  • I think it would improve the DIT spirit
  • Those resources are, of course, away from where taken from
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think the new tag brings nothing. on one side it should be an effort done with the admin from tjc (as you told, they do it and good). the next questions is, ( first i don't know really who they are, and what they do for job every days, and we don't need it), if they could do the best.
imagine if most of them work by jolla and are overworked or in holidays, then it is difficult to make the best.

I don't know how jolla organised itself, but i would do it in this way. For me for having the best exchange between jolla and customers, is to have admins on customer side (it comes a name currently in my head) and have enough. Then have admin on jolla side and enough, maybe one or two in fulltime to work with others who have already an other main job by jolla.

Is maybe more or less a good strategy for having good exchange (need,request understanding) between the two world. Naturally jolla intern should care to the organisation if one goes in holiday or is seek that someone take the roll after (difficult for the customer side).

Do i tell some nonsense?

cemoi71 ( 2015-08-14 11:41:43 +0200 )edit

@cemoi Really not nonsense at all, but I try reflect your comment as part of simple question (What to do with questions people posted, expecting only Jolla to answer)

What you wrote seems like the situation currently is - Jolla has assigned customers as mods, and there are sailors of Jolla as mods and admins. The thing is, the issue remains. More resources would sure help, but this answer doesn't suggest adding any (it suggests a new tag, and contributes to the discussion with the rest). But your comment might make another great suggestion (as answer) including it?

simo ( 2015-08-14 11:57:17 +0200 )edit

all those type of question should be first filtered and cleaned. first will be cleaned on simple entropy when other jolla tjc member which handle it with the creator. work as it works currently every day. then the admin should or would (don't know really) make an effort to clean those questions. The effort on this, flag or not flag, customer could think jolla should answer, but a lot's of time must not. It should be someone who has the better overview to explain, that should not be directly and explain why. or tell ok and put a flag "hey jolla need response please". in my thinking above, the flag what you means, is a flag that an admin (with better overview) will set if the situation has no issue.

the problem is how could we recognize, that an answer has still no reasonable answer?

maybe first all tjc member should clean their threads, and get themself the overview of their situation.
And then could pull a flag like "answer still nor reasonable answered" (at this stage jolla should not really care of it).
Then comes a little phase who all other member make their reactions, who can help the threads-holder to clean deeper (at this stage admins must not react as helper, but as "police" if it's needed).
then comes the admins job as helper to make it cleaner: 1. understanding, 2. ask for more precisions, and 3. action (close or bring to jolla aware).

maybe it should be 2 kinds admin in minimum. A "police-admin" and a "helper-admin", so that there is not too much task to do for each one. A lot's of them have an real life to manage.

cemoi71 ( 2015-08-14 12:35:22 +0200 )edit

@simo i have no problem to make as answer. but need to be cleaned. are just thinking...

cemoi71 ( 2015-08-14 12:37:19 +0200 )edit

i think now i have time problem. i have no stress if you put an other answer which described the points of the discussion more or less.and we could discuss together to improve it (if you think it make sense). or wait a little bit that i can handle it tonight or some days later (hoping that i don't forget it)...

cemoi71 ( 2015-08-14 12:41:57 +0200 )edit
3

answered 2015-09-03 10:16:20 +0200

cemoi71 gravatar image

I really agree about the situation that simo described. There is a big accumulation of non answered questions and requests and seems for me too that maybe the organisation could be improve.

on one side it should be an effort done with the admin from tjc.
the next questions is, ( first i don't know really who they are, and what they do for job every days, and we don't need it), if they could do the best. I imagine if most of them work by jolla and are overworked or in holidays, then it is difficult to make the best.

I don't know how jolla organised itself, but i would do it in this way. For me for having the best exchange between jolla and customers, is to have admins on customer side (it comes a name currently in my head) and have enough. Then have admin on jolla side and enough, maybe one or two in fulltime to work with others who have already an other main job by jolla.

Is maybe more or less a good strategy for having good exchange (need,request understanding) between the two world. Naturally jolla intern should care to the organisation if one goes in holiday or is seek that someone take the roll after (difficult for the customer side).

all those type of question should be first filtered and cleaned. first will be cleaned on simple entropy when other jolla tjc member which handle it with the creator. work as it works currently every day. then the admin should or would (don't know really) make an effort to clean those questions. The effort on this, flag or not flag, customer could think jolla should answer, but a lot's of time must not. It should be someone who has the better overview to explain, that should not be directly and explain why. or tell ok and put a flag "hey jolla need response please". in my thinking above, the flag what you means, is a flag that an admin (with better overview) will set if the situation has no issue.

the problem is how could we recognize, that an answer has still no reasonable answer?

maybe first all tjc member should clean their threads, and get themself the overview of their situation. And then could pull a flag like "answer still nor reasonable answered" (at this stage jolla should not really care of it). Then comes a little phase who all other member make their reactions, who can help the threads-holder to clean deeper (at this stage admins must not react as helper, but as "police" if it's needed). then comes the admins job as helper to make it cleaner: 1. understanding, 2. ask for more precisions, and 3. action (close or bring to jolla aware).

maybe it should be 2 kinds admin in minimum. A "police-admin" and a "helper-admin", so that there is not too much task to do for each one. A lot's of them have an real life to manage.

At the stage of the whole concept we could not leave the situation like it is currently. The system blooms, and let the organisation to communicate and to hear bloom with it.

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Asked: 2015-06-25 20:42:42 +0200

Seen: 2,410 times

Last updated: Sep 03 '15