Jolla Tablet contributions should not be considered as donations by default, instead should be refund with donation opt-in

asked 2016-02-01 16:00:09 +0200

rgraeflin
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updated 2016-02-02 16:56:40 +0200

tokaru
14054 ●175 ●219 ●220

Jolla has communicated a refund procedure which includes an automatic donation in case of no reply from the backer. This procedure is not customer friendly at all.

From an "entrepreneural" view, the only trust-building way is to automaically refund the backers and give an opt-in possibility to make a donation.

Anything else, I couldn't accept as a good practice. b. rgds Reto

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See @Chemist's answer here. Jolla has every (legal) right to default to keeping the money. Whether they have the moral right and whether it is a good idea from a PR PoV is another question.

pichlo ( 2016-02-01 16:04:57 +0200 )edit

That's why I didn't put in any legal aspects but mainly placed it as a proposal...

rgraeflin ( 2016-02-01 16:18:15 +0200 )edit

OTOH what would be the point in not answering an offer for a refund? As already stated by pichlo, all the money spent is actually seen as a financial contribution.

lakutalo ( 2016-02-01 16:29:01 +0200 )edit

Spamfilter ? / E-Mail Address change / on holiday and not willing to read e-mails. I am Swiss and I remember very well all our banking scandals, especially keeping jewish money in the bank. As from 1945 onward, the Swiss banks would have had all chances to look for the legal "money owners" but decided to keep the money and work with it. The profit gained with the money the banks kept to themselves, up until it was made public. It's my common understanding that if money is in my posession, which actually is either bound to a product or service in return, I can keep the money if I deliver. If for whatever reason, I do not deliver, I return the money rather than just keeping it until I receive a claim for it. My contribution was a contribution to a project, not a donation in general to the company. If Jolla can prove, my money went into the project, I am fine, apparently Jolla has or had no clue what's going on on their financial side, otherwise they would not be where they are today. Jolla can either consider my proposal , or leave it. I gave it a try and hope to get some support from others for the idea.

rgraeflin ( 2016-02-01 16:52:05 +0200 )edit

Where can I find the procedure?

Giacomo Di Giacomo ( 2016-02-01 17:08:51 +0200 )edit

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answered 2016-02-02 10:51:09 +0200

chemist
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moderator

http://talk.maemo.org/

Defaulting to donation as a crowd-funding is usually not up for a refund and they just try to play nice with their community.

On the other thoughts, Jolla is (still) in debt restructuring and could at this point already be forced to not offer a refund at all. They made it work out with us nevertheless! So have some respect on that end. People get in serious trouble when they pay something not supervised by the restructuring lawyers (is there a proper name for it in English?). So instead of complaining over and over again like why is it stretched over the whole year, because reasons! Anyone who is waiting for it can whitelist Jolla on his email and can take some responsibility for his/her end - now that it is known to default to a donation (what would be the same as debt-restructuring denial > you do not get anything)

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is there a proper name for it in English?

The correct term is liquidator.

lakutalo ( 2016-02-02 11:10:27 +0200 )edit

Thank you for mentioning the legal background here. I studied law. Although I work in a different sector now, I remember enough to know that (legal differences between my home country and Finland put aside) Jolla wasn't free during the last weeks/months to make decisions about refunding. There are probably companies and institutions that have valid legal claims agains Jolla (which the IGG-backers don't have), and even those don't get all of their money - if if they get some, they get it late.

The idea of a single crowd funder overruling Finnish law "because he wants his money back!" is so bizarre there's no word for it.

ossi1967 ( 2016-02-02 11:12:02 +0200 )edit

It is a disease of modern society not wanting to take responsibility for anything. Legally it is called negligent if you had an open order or any other business running on terms of electronic communication and still would "not be willing to read emails". Acting this way, not getting the proposed equivalent value in time or even at all is a simple matter of personal choice. The terms are clearly set, and Jolla has chosen to go beyond that, which is fair enough.

lakutalo ( 2016-02-02 11:46:54 +0200 )edit

@chemist you missed the point. @rgraeflin is talking about the tablet/refund process as announced by jolla and would like to discuss improvements. I get that you feel butt-hurt with all the jolla haters around by now. However I understand this is a legitimate response to a process announced by jolla, and from my point of view @rgraeflin merely wants to talk about specifics of a procedure that jolla already agreed on with the community. Your "shut up and go on with life", while appropriate to many of the real hate-posts, is not helpful here.

t-lo ( 2016-02-02 12:04:20 +0200 )edit

Just as bizarre as the answers to my not at all indecent request. As far as I am informed the money went to a Chinese daughter of Jolla, not to Finland, however. Nobody is overruling anyone. My request is clear and as polite as it can get and has nothing - absolutely nothing to do with legal, illegal or whatsoever. It contains also no threat into any legal action.

rgraeflin ( 2016-02-02 12:06:37 +0200 )edit

answered 2016-02-03 19:49:35 +0200

Dave999
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how do you know this has they starting my sending out refund mails with my info?

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Which comment are you referring to?

lakutalo ( 2016-02-03 19:53:16 +0200 )edit

That we have to answer Jolla.

Dave999 ( 2016-02-03 20:01:32 +0200 )edit

The FAQ in the latest blog post have been updated with that piece of information, search for "donate".

"[...] you will be asked to apply for a refund. By simply ignoring this you will be donating the funds to Jolla [...]"

tokaru ( 2016-02-04 14:57:30 +0200 )edit

Jolla Tablet contributions should not be considered as donations by default, instead should be refund with donation opt-in

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