Baseport 8 for X: If it's only about flashing...

asked 2019-11-19 22:38:16 +0200

This post is a wiki. Anyone with karma >75 is welcome to improve it.

updated 2019-11-21 21:03:37 +0200

rozgwi
4618 ●49 ●77 ●79

Who's in favor? Please upvote!
Update 21.11.19: Community Wiki

Just read the recent blog post about the Xperia 10 and the statement about Baseport 8 for Xperia X:

we would have to create and maturize new HW adaptation for Xperia X and either stop supporting old adaptation or to support two adaptations for Xperia X. Supporting two different adaptions for same device would obviously be more work than just having one. If we’d only support new adaptation with SW updates would mean that old users would need to reflash their devices or they would stop getting updates.

Given that Jolla has resources to support at least one adaption:
If you ask me, drop the old HW adaptation!

Happy to reflash more than once!

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Comments

23

I prefer reflash, Xperia X is enough for Sailfish X... i dont pay about 400€ phone+license for a 2 year lifetime.

strobovalo ( 2019-11-19 22:43:12 +0200 )edit

10

I agree. But aren't we a minority?

A.Maretzek ( 2019-11-19 22:50:42 +0200 )edit

11

That's to find out.
Maybe Jolla will consider dropping the old baseport if those owning an X tell them flashing is not an obstacle.

rozgwi ( 2019-11-19 22:58:01 +0200 )edit

11

I definitely agree! I will not give up on my XperiaX after one and half year of use. But it seems, after such statement from Jolla, we are running out of options...

neo75 ( 2019-11-19 23:21:21 +0200 )edit

2

goodbye and good luck

ralo ( 2019-11-19 23:34:27 +0200 )edit

36

answered 2019-11-19 23:38:38 +0200

rozgwi
4618 ●49 ●77 ●79

And one more idea:
Because the real blocker here most probably is paying the manpower for the baseport: Why not offer a paid upgrade to baseport 8?

If enough users are willing to pay for an upgrade, that could maybe finance the creation of the new hardware adaption. It would be something akin to a mini crowd sourcing.

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4

i think its more about the ongoing maintenance overhead, since they can't guarantee everyone will reflash and will want to continue supporting people on the android 6 base

r0kk3rz ( 2019-11-20 06:07:42 +0200 )edit

6

Question is, what is cheaper in the long run: making new port and unify SailfishX base (assuming they have experience both with hardware new android base) or deal with baseport differences maintaining their software. New baseport would definitelly ease kernel updates (security+bug fixes with new features as a bonus) It would be a win-win situation.

Xeno_PL ( 2019-11-20 11:39:07 +0200 )edit

2

you're assuming they'll drop support for the android 6 base, which jolla have already said they're reluctant to do

r0kk3rz ( 2019-11-21 01:38:34 +0200 )edit

4

@r0kk3rz why not ditch android 6 base? corporate customers using it? very unsecure!

tortoisedoc ( 2019-11-21 07:58:21 +0200 )edit

4

IIRC corporate customers (eq. Aurora) is actually not using the Android emulation layer at all, as the whole point of that projects is to be independent on foreign mobile OSes (eq. iOS & Android).

MartinK ( 2019-11-22 11:09:52 +0200 )edit

20

answered 2019-11-21 04:49:04 +0200

Djip007
226 ●1 ●2 ●4

We need updated secure kernel for XperiaX (Sony privide it!!) and if possible update Android support!!! Don't mater if I need reflash!!!!

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19

answered 2019-11-20 09:08:51 +0200

tortoisedoc

11414 ●172 ●269 ●287

http://kastlunger.blogspo...

updated 2019-11-20 09:11:20 +0200

Considering all of Android is moving along with the wind of time; It's surprising to see Jolla pull up the "support older HW" as both as an excuse as well as a reason NOT to upgrade the android layer for Xperia X to 8.1. This smells like corporate tho, so I don't think it's fully Jolla's works here. It would seem natural to FORCE everybody to 8.1 Android - as it is also safer for the users, as android does, and DEPRECATE the old android release (as well as google does). Sounds like Jolla is inviting us to DITCH the Xperia X's :(.

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Jolla as a company is in the leash of Sony or the like ... 🤔🤔🔎🔎⌚⌚⌚⌚✌✌✌

N9Sailfish ( 2019-11-20 09:39:56 +0200 )edit

1

Well, I see it as follows: Jolla promised support for certain models, not certain baseports. Telling customers using Xperia X devices (For over 1.5 years I might add) that they need to reflash to get future updates and upgraded Android support does not seem unreasonable at all. If the customer doesn’t want to reflash, that is their choice, but no more updates.

Nova ( 2019-11-20 10:34:41 +0200 )edit

8

The way of living and the way like acting .. Not ecological ... A new phone every 1 - 1.5 years. Uups! What might Greta to comment on this! 😂😂😂

N9Sailfish ( 2019-11-20 10:47:54 +0200 )edit

5

Jolla cannot force paid customers to choose between ongoing updates for the entire OS (by reflashing and risking losing data) just to get one optional app updated (Android layer), or stop getting updates of their entire OS. Jolla's decisions seem the safest, given their resources, decision, business and technical-wise.

orangecat ( 2019-11-20 11:32:43 +0200 )edit

5

Well, the company, which does not take risks, will be sooner or later in a bankruptcy. Also, the company which does not take care of all customers, shall be very sooner or but not later in a bankcruptcy. Well you know, the bad rumours shall run quickly incredibly fast throught our globe and minds of people.

N9Sailfish ( 2019-11-20 11:45:47 +0200 )edit

17

answered 2019-11-26 20:54:04 +0200

mirumger

572 ●10 ●21 ●25

The users of the Xperia X have flashed the devices once, so I see no problem in doing it again. And buying a new license/extension won't be a problem either.

Because there are no native alternative apps for some things (e.g. charging apps for the EV) I unfortunately have to rely on Android apps. Unfortunately I have to find out that more and more of these apps don't work anymore, but because I don't want to scrap my 2 year old Xperia X, all I can do is prepare to say goodbye to SailfishOs. Furthermore, I wonder if the further development for Xperia 10 will be discontinued after a little more than a year, as it was for Xperia X.

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1

I did it this night flash back to android and maybe in the future test lineage os, flashing is not a problem and losing data also (lots off apps propose backups). I fully agree with you to much app (banking and so) and flashing is not an issue and xperia x hardware is ok for me , hope Jolla will change its decision for the future ...otherwise they will lost consummers ....

mvdm ( 2019-11-29 14:19:38 +0200 )edit

16

answered 2019-11-21 07:45:34 +0200

Lauron
161 ●1 ●1 ●3

Some iimportant applications seem not to work on X because of the old Android port. No problem to reflash to continue using X where Sailfish otherwise works well.

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16

answered 2019-11-22 10:34:11 +0200

objectifnul

9370 ●150 ●203 ●224

updated 2019-11-22 13:49:26 +0200

I strongly believe that Jolla should take real care of long term OS support for legacy devices (like Xperia X) because if not, their business plan would be completely jeopardized: the company is no longer a hardware designer/supplyer, it's a software business. If none of the official ports for third party devices is up-to-date and 100% hardware/firmware compliant, that would be a major failure, as the core of the business plan would just fail, for legacy devices as well as new future ports. Nobody (including corporate customers) would trust an ecosystem where the expected lifetime of SailfishOS devices would be less than two years.

The Sony experience must be a long-term success, otherwise Jolla has no future.

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4

They didn't drop support for Xperia X as far as I understood their announcement: "We are rightly well-known in the industry for the exceptional long-term support we provide for all of our devices and we will naturally be providing all the regular Sailfish OS software updates for the Xperia X, including Android 4.4 support, just as we do for many other older devices. The recent release of Sailfish OS 3.2.0 Torronsuo underlines our commitment to this."

orangecat ( 2019-11-22 11:27:26 +0200 )edit

5

@AN They did drop support for Xperia X, or how else would you call being forced to old kernel that reached EOL two years ago (3.10). And no, they cannot upgrade kernel without upgrading Android support (because dependencies).

mcencora ( 2019-11-22 12:40:36 +0200 )edit

RHEL 7 still uses kernel 3.10. Does this mean Red Hat dropped support for RHEL 7 ? No, the OS is still supported by Red Hat and new fixes and updates are happening.

orangecat ( 2019-11-22 16:43:54 +0200 )edit

2

@AN You are comparing apples to oranges. RedHat continuously back ports kernel patches both to support for new hardware/features and security fixes, and they do it on timely manner.

Jolla neither have resources nor developers knowledgeable in this area even to backport security fixes (it is not as easy as cherry-pick, because they have no publicly available repo with kernel 3.10 to cherry-pick from, so they would have to manually back port these patches, and given their lack of expertese I'd not trust them they do it correctly). Also kernel 3.10 on our Xperias is completely different beast than upstream kernel 3.10 - there is a ton of features/modifications added specifically for Android by Google, and then by Sony. Let's face it, kernel on our Xperias X is unmaintained - this is a fact.

mcencora ( 2019-11-22 19:33:08 +0200 )edit

1

But don't believe me, believe what HW manufacturer, says on his site: https://developer.sony.com/develop/open-devices/get-started/supported-devices-and-functionality/ "Kernel 3.10 No longer maintained"

mcencora ( 2019-11-22 19:36:52 +0200 )edit

3

answered 2019-11-20 00:07:55 +0200

makarch
1417 ●24 ●51 ●46

updated 2019-11-20 00:11:08 +0200

Why should they update it? This way means less work and more money for them.

Thats it! Nobody cares about those few Xperia X guinea pigs.

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Comments

3

Very bad indeed. I am very sorry and polite. I jumped from X to XA2 for six months ago. Now is coming X 10. Thus also XA2 shall meet something shit as X now. I earlier allready write when leaved X that it will be an endless sum of algorithm as:

Xperia (n+1) shall eat Xperia (n); n=1, 2, 3, ...., eternity oo.

However, how long Jolla as company shall keep or maintain our trust. I quess not for ever. Thus there shall be an mathematical limit for value of number n << oo.

N9Sailfish ( 2019-11-20 07:45:31 +0200 )edit

It will probably get workser as Jolla progresses with more and more devices. The strong tie to Android is proving to be deprimental mainly for the main users.

tortoisedoc ( 2019-11-20 09:13:03 +0200 )edit

6

The Android layer problem should not hide the fact that Xperia official port is far from perfect on many other aspects (tiny root partition, hardware/middleware support issues, browser regressions etc.)

objectifnul ( 2019-11-20 12:46:17 +0200 )edit

1

Not proper support for smart watches incl. Android BLE. ⌚⌚⌚⌚😥

N9Sailfish ( 2019-11-20 12:50:16 +0200 )edit

I’ve been visiting your stuff for a while now and I always find a gem in your new posts. power washing

casseverhart13 ( 2019-11-25 04:53:26 +0200 )edit

Baseport 8 for X: If it's only about flashing...

Happy to reflash more than once!

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