Issue #2: Why Jolla deserved to fail

asked 2015-11-30 15:49:38 +0200

3238 ●46 ●60 ●67

updated 2017-10-10 17:00:46 +0200

[Edit: removed two edits posted afterwards, was an unimportant sidetrack]

In my opinion there is a big enough market for people who want a phone which is neither collecting as much data as possible (Android) nor locked down & censored (iPhone). Also important: openess, 'standard linux distribution' and nice design. I would be ready to pay between 50 and 100 € yearly to a company which provides and takes care of such a phone/software. Personally I don't need fancy hardware, but others might, thus there needs to be choices.

I hoped Jolla could be this, but

open source: it was 'mis-marketed' in the begining, and the more I think about it, the less I see a way for a company to enter the smartphone business without being open source incl. UI. Nobody can fight against Google, Apple or Microsoft without much grassroot help and this will never be given without being open source.
chase the wrong goals: once there was angry birds... recently this UI update to mixed results... several website updates... Was this money well spent? On the other hand important things for people which I suppose buy such a phone have been neglected: email, contacts, calendar, foto, synchronization, encryption, toh...
business model & money & management: I loved the beautiful films, the tablet one was particularly gorgeous. But I always wondered about your business model. I cannot imagine that Sailfish on Intex could (at this time) become mainstream and 'print money'. How would you e.g. fight cheap android/windows phones which might even carry 'free' goodies? Why would Intex go with SF and not with e.g. Cyanogen? Shouldn't you rather address people as mentioned on top of this post who are prepared to support an alternative phone? - I don't mind tablet delays due to displays etc. but I wonder a bit about the software side. Shouldn't one be able to plan more accurately? (But maybe not and I can accept that projects are more difficult than thought or even fail). Shouldn't you have been a bit more frugal with your investment money?
communication: terrible! Maybe you wanted too much with together, people powered, irc meetings, twitter, blog. With time noncommittal 'cool aid' overtook for me the 'we take you serious and are honest'. I'd like to mention that again and again developers showed up on together and provided advise, great!
open development: why isn't all/most code on github where people can post issues and provide PRs. Together feels like a mess. Look at gitlab how they engage with the community and get a tremendous amount of features back (but then they have an easier business model and code is fully open source). I say this b/c I perceive the progress of e.g. calendar, email as very slow and you would have had, maybe still have, a community who could help.
Delusion: I have read: "It's not the delays, it's that the world is slow" [to discover Sailfish OS as an alternative option to Android and iOS]. Sorry? - For me, it's the opposite: JOLLA is slow to find a business model that could work, JOLLA is slow to address the points that many have raised long ago. I recommended JOLLA to others but only very very cautiously, because (overgeneralised): for people who like android/iphone it doesn't 'just work' and too many features are missing. For people who want alternatives it is not open-source enough. For aesthetician the phone lost some charm with the last ui update.
I suppose it is just REALLY difficult. If you open source then others can take away almost everything (except branding). If you don't, you loose. Ubuntu and Plasma Phone have rich investors which - if I'm not wrong - don't need a quick return and are partly 'create-a-better-world' driven.

I hope you find a way!! Despite my maybe harsh critic, I'm happy that there are companies like yours and I won't stop give you support (well, I don't need a new phone, my two jollas work still fine and hopefully will for the next two years, but I'd give support as mentioned on top of this post if you ask for it).

This said, I'm also pragmatic and - I suppose - in about two years the Ubuntu and the Plasma Mobile phone will be reasonably good too and I don't see how you could be an alternative to me then without also being open.

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Comments

22

Very harsh title but a lot of valid points in the text.I wish I could argue with this post but I have to agree at least for the most part.

lispy ( 2015-11-30 16:10:45 +0200 )edit

15

They didn't fail yet (well actually they did, but there is still hope they get saved) but I have to agree with you. Jolla didn't seem to target its own community, i mean do you really care for angry birds? Do you think that ambiences are a 'killer'-feature? And on top of that there is still no paid app support I mean thats the first thing you need if you don't want to go fully open.

michel ( 2015-11-30 16:10:57 +0200 )edit

2

@michel Paid apps could have helped to get more apps ported and make it easier for average user to switch to SFOS, but it could also instead of native ports, have flooded the Store with existing Android versions of those apps with pricetag because "why wouldn't you sell your app on as many stores as you can?".

avhakola ( 2015-11-30 16:35:08 +0200 )edit

1

thats not really a problem is it? I mean Jolla allows android apps in their own store for a reason. And the apps that end up there are at least garanteed to work flawlessly on SFOS

michel ( 2015-11-30 16:42:10 +0200 )edit

3

@lipy: I second that - while the title indeed sounds harsh the actual piece is a really good summary of the issues we are having right now. Lets hope its not too late yet to apply lessons and change the course...

MartinK ( 2015-11-30 16:48:20 +0200 )edit

28

answered 2015-11-30 21:51:42 +0200

stephan

4233 ●79 ●106 ●107

updated 2015-12-01 22:36:37 +0200

Just entered here to write something like "Jolla management needs to be ousted!" - but this post mostly is about the things I wanted to write which are:

communication - again and again!
TOH: what a wonderful concept shamefully neglected.
Tablet: why really? Shouldn't there have been another phone instead? Now we have neither. This tablet project bound huge ressources only to give us a compromised UI on the phone!
Paid apps: again and again!
Lacking support for hardware: after 3 years now there shouldn't be just one old phone - there should be many new ones!
The ridiculous store: everything sold out. Not even a tshirt can be bought (still love and wear mine "I'm the first one"!)

So really: I see mismanagement here - big time!

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1

I think the tablet was the best decision. Users demand less from a tablet than from a phone and will even cope with limited functionality. If something does not work as expected or an app is not available, they can still switch to their phone or PC. The phone on the other hand is way more important. Users depend on their phones as it is often the only device they carry. Overall, for a tablet the user frustration will be lower with limited features. Most people would probably only use the browser, use social networking apps, and play a few games on their tablet. This would be the niche were Sailfish OS was already working quite well in my opinion.

I see good reasons to demonstrate Sailfish OS on a tablet instead of producing a second phone, especially when a wider adoption of the OS has to be the main goal to attract more investors.

raimue ( 2015-12-01 02:34:42 +0200 )edit

@raimue, you mean because selfish OS is so bad, it does less harm on the tablet? can't relate to that!

stephan ( 2015-12-01 08:10:07 +0200 )edit

@stephan: Agree to all points except for the TOH. Yes, wonderful concept but It was clear that this would fail because Jolla never plant to produce a second phone. Focus should have been on software! Not on Hardware!

Stephan ( 2015-12-02 22:20:40 +0200 )edit

@Stephan, very cool, case sensitiveness in usernames! :-) Well I agree, focus on software. But then: why investing energy in developing the TOH concept? And why not team up with the hardware companies to get the software running on as many hardwares as possible? The more I think of it the more I wonder which direction this boat was supposed to take ...

stephan ( 2015-12-03 00:52:05 +0200 )edit

@Stephan nailed it. I agree with every single point.

shfit ( 2015-12-12 11:52:20 +0200 )edit

22

answered 2015-11-30 23:13:35 +0200

sifartech
6679 ●104 ●126 ●123

updated 2015-12-01 11:38:09 +0200

Well, it is easy to say all this in hind sight, and so the harshness is understandable. You did make some good points though. My perspective on this:

Open-source - I wouldn't say it was shady marketing. Sailfish is just as open-source as Android. Which is to say that some parts are open source and some not so. Anyone who is interested in open-source would have understood that immediately when they tried to research Jolla / Sailfish, as it was common public knowledge.
Wrong goals: Spot on - who convinced them that angry birds would make them look cool?
Business model: Spot on - it always seemed like they had no interest in generating revenue. I have always felt that the Jolla start-up was just waiting for their time when Nokia would buy them out (part of the deal with Microsoft was that Nokia could again sell smart-phones after a few years, and Jolla perhaps figured that if they have Sailfish ready by then, they could convince Nokia to buy them).
Communication: Yeah. Sometimes I too felt that TJC was used more for online marketing than to listen to valid criticism (which were often drowned out subtly in the 'noise' generated here).
Open development: I don't grudge them for not open sourcing their apps. Someone once joked with me, "I have an open mind, but not so open that my brain falls out". There are limits to commercialising open-source code, and I think Jolla has struck the right balance with Sailfish OS.
Delusion: I wouldn't be so harsh. Prefer ignorance or mismanaged to that word.
Tablet: The tablet was another proof-of-concept of Sailfish OS capability, and it was necessary for the continued viable, development of the OS. You need hardware to develop software. Not to mention the good publicity it got Jolla. (I am sure some investors would have been attracted by that.) Of course, I don't know if it was optimal use of their resources or whether they should have waited a bit to be more stable before launching it.

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11

answered 2015-11-30 18:12:56 +0200

cemoi71

14264 ●310 ●434 ●439

time is money.
It is told, jolla need to react faster.
faster is an adjective of time. But for velocity, means workforce (manpower).
who need more people, need more money, and could work faster.
The problem of jolla is to have money to have this velocity.
but as unknown os, it need to be recognized. means have a platform where the os could evolve, and to be exhibited.
that have some costs too.
and with not so much money (i think 10M$ is the really small limit to have some liberty on it), that not so easy.
They should find a well balanced strategy, between manpower investments, and platform investment.
Every steps are dangerous. It's easy to make failure
they should be careful, but not indicate that they are to shy on some investments.

I found jolla until now really enterprising, and open. That's good.
They made some failures, all make failures.
We should accept a lot if it's communicated and not repeated.

Not forget that all wanted a tablet and afterwards some improvements, and other options.
And now that some are taken in consideration, and build inside. Should we tell that jolla as made a bullshit?
If the investor wouldn't have retracted, all will be happy.
What is the need of some people to entertain the fire?
Sometimes i don't understand the people too...

Wait and see, just have patience. jolla is far away to be down.

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10

answered 2015-11-30 17:54:20 +0200

tortoisedoc

11414 ●172 ●269 ●287

http://kastlunger.blogspo...

updated 2015-12-01 20:03:24 +0200

Say what you want, at some point the jolla phone was being sold more than iphone 5c's (at least in Finland). This was right in the beginning after the Narikkatori intro. I have NEVER seen a jolla phone in a DNA store (except central Helsinki and only once) after that; no wonder phones do not sell, they are not on the shelves?
The first OS release was pure marketing bs. And apologies for the sillogism. Very much premature and incomplete. Only hardcore fans (me included) would have stayed around after it.

That said, the OS was and still is a refreshing experience. This is the most valuable asset IMO at the moment, together with the fact that it is (up to a certain extent) open source.

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8

answered 2015-11-30 22:26:23 +0200

M.Bln.
4289 ●76 ●117 ●113

updated 2015-11-30 22:28:07 +0200

Bad headline but very good critics!

The most important point to me is the evolution vs. revolution critic: Jolla tried/s to make revolutionary steps in the UI, revolutionary steps with hardware (tablet), as well as with the communication. That's fine as long as you have capacities to handle it - but Jolla hasn't enough capacities to be revolutionary in all aspects (at the same time).

So my advise (I know everybody has advises at the moment) is to concentrate on ONE thing and that's usability, usability, usability! The usability of SFOS is what customers feel and spent money for! Provide better native apps (e.g. calendar, mail), consistent handling and MOST important a solid long term strategy. And talk about your strategy, announce it, promote it!

If you can show what SFOS can be, WILL be in future than you are a revolution for the market!

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5

answered 2015-12-15 13:22:52 +0200

devarshi84
503 ●16 ●22 ●23

I am an entrepreneur by profession and market researcher by educational background and hobby. I want Sailfish OS to survive because it is the only NON US smartphone OS surviving today against Windows, IOS and Android.

Jolla went wrong in the sense their marketing was not English. Outside of Europe, most countries use English as a tool to communicate. Jollas most articles never reached the masses.

Jolla Sailfish is still a rare thing for the common man. The Handset has never been heard about and the OS never seen. I use a Jolla and people are fascinated but they want something that they know about. Samsung, Apple and LG are smartphones. Meizu, Jolla, Firefox are alien terms.

The hardware was extremely underwhelming. Here jolla committed the same mistake Blackberry made with a Z10. People who buy a distinct phone want a distinct hardware too.

the same goes for compatibility with the google app store. For a common man the UI was the only different thing about the phone. The hardware and android store made it all the same experience.

With Windows struggling with again awesome windows 10, Blackberry almost out of contention and Firefox quitting, Sailfish has the potential to hit the nail on the head and be the Fourth major smartphone maker.

How?

Distinct Hardware. You partner with Intel and provide a snapdragon CPU? That cpu is found in 90% of android phones. An intel cpu nvidia tegra gpu powerhouse competing with Iphone and Samsung galaxy at 95% price will get you sales.

A good AMOLED screen. HTC and APple might have good LCD's but they are a thing of the past. Give us AMOLED screens with High nits. People dig good screens.

Bring compatibility with car audio, smart watches, Smarttv's right away. I like a smartphone which pairs with my gadgets easily. Android is struggling hard here. IOS has support from Suppliers because it sells.

Make products available. Please clear the tablet delivery issue first and foremost.

Make your OS available for free to try on high end devices like samsung Galaxy s6, Sony Z4 etc. this will help bring developers on platform and let people try sailfish on their phones. Make it available publicly and publicise.

6.There are various companies sitting to tie up with a smartphone OS with financial muscle (e.g. yahoo). Tie up with Yahoo to include their apps like yahoo messenger, flickr, aviate, yahoo search, yahoo mail (tie up with jolla accounts for database), yahoo news, yahoo weather, yahoo finance. Yahoo search marketing and online ads will give a boost to revenue for jolla via sailfish OS internet usage. A future might also mean yahoo hosting app store for Jolla (if it falls in jolla sailfish guidelines). Yahoo doesnt want a smartphone OS but they need a level field to one up on Microsoft and Google. You need developers and a big name like Yahoo can. Yahoo here is just one such company.

Stick to a phone, tablet, smartwatch lineup. Slimmer lineup means more economies of scale.

Outsource to somebody like foxconn. Blackberry is bigger than you and they thought it was a good idea. TO be brutally honest, the Jolla phone build quality is as typically Chinese as it can get. The rear panels creak, the screen has blotches and the camera cannot better my decade old siemens S65 (the first megapixel camera).

I have read a lot of political problems within the company and on the boards. For a small company, such things just take away trust. Keep the garbage bin closed.

I can write 100 pages to you but all this will remain on the blog. A techie cannot run a company, a businessman cannot make a product. Togather they can win any business battle.

I don't know how much of this makes sense to Jolla and if they will ever read this. But If I were at the helm at Jolla, I would have definitely executed the abovementioned points. I am available to help with more input for the company to survive.

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4

answered 2015-11-30 17:16:01 +0200

Macilaci457
5554 ●101 ●130 ●127

updated 2015-11-30 17:16:54 +0200

How I see it Jolla had a strict objective to be a software developer company, not a hardware manufacturer with a nice OS. But they introduced themselves as a phone, Jolla. Jolla is still a phone to me (I know, I know...) as the company is not called Sailfish.

The J1 is already old technology, the OS can be Sailfish 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, any version, but the hardware is still old, only a few would buy it. It is like a developement platform now.

Sailfish OS only can be an alternative when the hardware can be an alternative too. Sailfish (not Jolla) need a new model or modells, or they should make possible to ANYONE to install Sailfish to ANY phone to make it an ALTERNATIVE os.

Please note: I own a first one Jolla, I like it, and I would be pleased if Jolla continued developement for free for ages, but it is simply not possible as a business model.

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the old harware wouldn't be a problem if the J1 weren't the embodiment of wasted space. That aside they need not to make their own hardware but hardware partners so that SFOS finds its way to local electronic stores where people could test and see it and eventually buy it.

michel ( 2015-11-30 17:52:22 +0200 )edit

The way jolla handled the HW situation is IMO problematic. It was wrong to expect MFGs to instantly jump ship and support your SW development. Part of the money should have been spend in updating the phone yearly. J1 was ok for a beta phone but on the one year mark it should have been updated with -lets say- a better screen and maybe some more ram.

ApB ( 2015-11-30 19:20:28 +0200 )edit

Yes, the Jolla was good to show off the features of SFOS, but now we desperately need new hardware. Phone hardware that is - the tablet was never needed.

stephan ( 2015-11-30 22:00:03 +0200 )edit

4

answered 2015-12-01 21:58:06 +0200

bilgy_no1
7008 ●55 ●100 ●104

To add one more point of criticism:

Getting in bed with the wrong people, or at least not explaining properly how they would remain independent. When Jolla announced that they were working with the Russian government, I felt a little disconcerted. And despite questions and discussions here, there was never a proper response.

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8

For me working with the Russian government sounded like good news. One heck of a reference to secure.

Did you already forget "Sailfish Secure" amid the tablet hype?

Jolla partners with SSH Communications Security to develop the secure mobile phone solution ideal for government officials, corporations, and consumers.

vandersmash ( 2015-12-01 22:12:41 +0200 )edit

1

@vandersmash There were/are genuine concerns about cooperating with a government that does not give the any priority to civil rights, to put it mildly. I don't see how this can match the ethos of Jolla (crowd sourced, privacy first, etc.).

The ssh partnership never materialised into a tangible service, so it can not allay the concerns.

bilgy_no1 ( 2015-12-02 21:13:37 +0200 )edit

2

100% agree. how can you partner with people like this being at the helm (staying in sailing-metaphors...)? you are gay/lesbian? well, your phone might reveal. have a different opinion about politics? your phone might reveal. and so on...

as long as SFOS is closed source and as long as they don't tell us what they are doing with russian government, i will always be concerned. jolla is short of money? hope that they don't need it that desperately. :-(

i already changed my jolla for an old iphone, although i really would like to stick to my jolla. best mobile OS i have ever used!

thomas.goertz ( 2015-12-02 21:41:39 +0200 )edit

3

answered 2015-12-15 13:20:33 +0200

devarshi84
503 ●16 ●22 ●23

updated 2015-12-15 13:22:00 +0200

I am an entrepreneur by profession and market researcher by educational background and hobby. I want Sailfish OS to survive because it is the only NON US smartphone OS surviving today against Windows, IOS and Android.

Jolla went wrong in the sense their marketing was not English. Outside of Europe, most countries use English as a tool to communicate. Jollas most articles never reached the masses.
Jolla Sailfish is still a rare thing for the common man. The Handset has never been heard about and the OS never seen. I use a Jolla and people are fascinated but they want something that they know about. Samsung, Apple and LG are smartphones. Meizu, Jolla, Firefox are alien terms.
The hardware was extremely underwhelming. Here jolla committed the same mistake Blackberry made with a Z10. People who buy a distinct phone want a distinct hardware too.
the same goes for compatibility with the google app store. For a common man the UI was the only different thing about the phone. The hardware and android store made it all the same experience.
With Windows struggling with again awesome windows 10, Blackberry almost out of contention and Firefox quitting, Sailfish has the potential to hit the nail on the head and be the Fourth major smartphone maker.

How?

Distinct Hardware. You partner with Intel and provide a snapdragon CPU? That cpu is found in 90% of android phones. An intel cpu nvidia tegra gpu powerhouse competing with Iphone and Samsung galaxy at 95% price will get you sales.
A good AMOLED screen. HTC and APple might have good LCD's but they are a thing of the past. Give us AMOLED screens with High nits. People dig good screens.
Bring compatibility with car audio, smart watches, Smarttv's right away. I like a smartphone which pairs with my gadgets easily. Android is struggling hard here. IOS has support from Suppliers because it sells.
Make products available. Please clear the tablet delivery issue first and foremost.
Make your OS available for free to try on high end devices like samsung Galaxy s6, Sony Z4 etc. this will help bring developers on platform and let people try sailfish on their phones. Make it available publicly and publicise.

6.There are various companies sitting to tie up with a smartphone OS with financial muscle (e.g. yahoo). Tie up with Yahoo to include their apps like yahoo messenger, flickr, aviate, yahoo search, yahoo mail (tie up with jolla accounts for database), yahoo news, yahoo weather, yahoo finance. Yahoo search marketing and online ads will give a boost to revenue for jolla via sailfish OS internet usage. A future might also mean yahoo hosting app store for Jolla (if it falls in jolla sailfish guidelines). Yahoo doesnt want a smartphone OS but they need a level field to one up on Microsoft and Google. You need developers and a big name like Yahoo can. Yahoo here is just one such company.

Stick to a phone, tablet, smartwatch lineup. Slimmer lineup means more economies of scale.
Outsource to somebody like foxconn. Blackberry is bigger than you and they thought it was a good idea. TO be brutally honest, the Jolla phone build quality is as typically Chinese as it can get. The rear panels creak, the screen has blotches and the camera cannot better my decade old siemens S65 (the first megapixel camera).
I have read a lot of political problems within the company and on the boards. For a small company, such things just take away trust. Keep the garbage bin closed.

I can write 100 pages to you but all this will remain on the blog. A techie cannot run a company, a businessman cannot make a product. Togather they can win any business battle.

I don't know how much of this makes sense to Jolla and if they will ever read this. But If I were at the helm at Jolla, I would have definitely executed the abovementioned points. I am available to help with more input for the company to survive.

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-11

answered 2015-11-30 16:25:50 +0200

ApB
27604 ●302 ●421 ●409

The open source bullshit must end at some point. All the FOSS fundamentalists and surrounding community are incapable of creating a usable product for someone who doesn't have greasy long hair, a weird beard and wears a stained FSF/GNU t-shirt.

Few contribute to usable FOSS projects and most of the development happens by people that get paid to do it. FOSS doesn't mean success, neither that everyone will contribute once something has a GPL license.

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5

Where did you see open source bullshit in my text? - A lot, probably most of the open source developers in the big projects get paid. Of course doesn't FOSS mean success, in fact quite some projects are dumped as open source when they failed. I argued in respect of the 'phone competition' and also mentioned the danger. - (I didn't downvote you btw)

chappi ( 2015-11-30 16:39:38 +0200 )edit

1

Imho vocal minority in the community being against industry standards hurts SFOS and Jolla more than not everything being FOSS. It is nice if your way works for minority, but isn't better if it works for majority (because the minority has the knowhow work around the limitations) and best if we can have both solutions at the same time?

avhakola ( 2015-11-30 16:49:18 +0200 )edit

2

i agree to some degree but Jolla advertised being open quite heavily so its no wonder people asking for it. Also most ppl without greasy long hair and/or wierd beards and stained FSF/GNU shirts are perfectly satisfied with Android/iOS or even Win10. I mean lose these people and Jolla has only 'Nokia fans that despise windows phone' and finnish or european patriots left for users.

michel ( 2015-11-30 16:49:26 +0200 )edit

10

@ApB

Ballmer, you are writing from another person's account. Please re-login

ScumCoder ( 2015-11-30 17:00:59 +0200 )edit

8

+1 for you. Everyone here asking to open source other people's work, why don't YOU do yourself the job that Jolla has done and replicate the parts that are closed source? Maybe because time has a value and people need to get paid to do such a job.

Giacomo Di Giacomo ( 2015-11-30 18:08:10 +0200 )edit

Issue #2: Why Jolla deserved to fail

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