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I donated my Jolla Tablet refund, what about you?

asked 2016-03-17 03:31:55 +0300

00prometheus gravatar image

updated 2016-03-26 14:01:58 +0300

palikao gravatar image

I thought a bit about it, and the simple fact is that the money has been gone from my account for so long that I don't miss it any longer. It would be a nice bonus to get the money back, but I don't miss it and strictly speaking don't need it.

However, I do need an alternative to iOS and Android! So in the end, I donated my money rather than claiming the refund, 64GB, Lastu case and all. How about you?

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@00prometheus i vote your thread up. shortly i pointed this theme in an other context, in a little bit stormy thread. And told that me too want to donate it, and i'll do so. I may use the money of refund, but for what? i believe that there is currently no alternative to jolla for me. I want that they could make their job further. and for me, it make not sense to remove the money back.
Furthermore by using igg i sweared to me too that is an investment. would not be correct from me to remove it....

cemoi71 ( 2016-03-17 11:05:05 +0300 )edit

From the Jolla Tablet refund tool: "I prefer to support Jolla". That's what I've chosen.

ziellos ( 2016-03-17 15:55:19 +0300 )edit

Ah, moral pressure by "exemplary behavior"? :P I bought a birthday present, food and clothes for my children.

Moo-Crumpus ( 2016-03-18 08:30:56 +0300 )edit

Would like to support Jolla. But as I am not sure if they are still alive, I prefer to get the money back.

Stefanix ( 2016-03-18 09:34:46 +0300 )edit

@Moo-Crumpus the victim, would please stop to accuse anyone with stupid emotionial attack? Every one bring their experience, and don't expect what you should do. They assume their action, like you you assume yours for the gift to your children. That is fine, no way. But accuse others with Moral pressure is not fair. STOP IT ENDLY!!!!!

cemoi71 ( 2016-03-18 10:47:02 +0300 )edit

17 Answers

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answered 2016-03-17 09:28:48 +0300

hubat gravatar image

updated 2016-03-17 09:59:28 +0300

I love SFOS and fully agree that it is the best candidate at the present point in time for a functional alternative to the big, data hungry players. I am willing to support Jolla by all reasonable means, regardless of my disappointment regarding the tablet.

But I absolutely don't feel I or anyone else should donate to Jolla. They are not a charity or not-for-profit organisation. As long as the code base is not Open-Sourced they deserve to be treated as a business, as this is what they really are.

As I said, I am more than willing to leave my money with them - and way more than the amount of the failed crowd funding campaign - but I would like to get something valuable for it. I have bought two Jolla phones so far, and I am waiting for the next opportunity to spend money, may it be the credit from the tablet.

As I cannot expect any devices to come from Jolla anymore, I could think along the line of paying for things like the following:

  • an annual subscription fee for fully supported and updated and unencumbered versions of community ports of SFOS for a number of devices (e.g. FairPhone2, PuzzlePhone)
  • voting privileges to prioritise the further development of SFOS
  • a crowd funding campaign to release the missing parts of the code base under a free license

I would not hesitate for a second to give my credit for something valuable like the above. I would hate to donate my money to Jolla only to see them being bought up by a Russian agency some time this year so that they can build their national mobile OS based on SFOS with their grain of oppression build in as it suits them. (I am free to speculate, remember?)

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+1 Totally agree

thomas.goertz ( 2016-03-17 10:17:19 +0300 )edit

While I'd like for Silica to be open source too, you have to admit that a lot of the code base is open source. Subscription fee certainly would help them. Buying jollas phones probably won't net them lots of monies though.

chappi ( 2016-03-18 13:13:10 +0300 )edit

@chappi My point is that Jolla can be bought any time by an investor I wouldn't want to support, or at least to the extend I am perfectly happy to support the good fellas of Jolla today. The current investors have invested roughly $60 million if I have followed the blogs correctly and are nervous enough to nearly have destroyed Jolla. What happens if somebody showed up and offered them $100M, $150M or even $500M which is still pocket money for some potential candidates. Would they resist selling, even if the buyer wouldn't share their values?

If all tablet contributors would donate their share, that would be $2.5M. How does that compare to what is at stake? How would that secure our interests? That's less than 5% of what the investors have put into the game. Will they say: 'I would love to sell and make my share - but I won't because I don't want to disappoint those many donors'? I don't think so.

If Jolla gets sold, I would end up with a great phone with an even greater OS that is dead, dead, dead - because it is not maintained anymore. Just like my wonderful Nokia N9. I don't want to experience that again. The only real way to prevent that is by having the code base released as FOSS.

If we would do something like a crowd funding campaign to buy a minority share for the sole purpose to veto any attempt to sell Jolla - that would be something I would throw my money into as well. But I guess that is much more unlikely than Jolla setting a price for FOSS'ing their entire code base and crowd funding that.

hubat ( 2016-03-23 04:59:15 +0300 )edit

I agree with @hubat too. Actually I would rather give another contribution to make a tablet real than having my money back... But Jolla decided to be a software only company - so there is no chance to have a Jolla tablet anymore.

As much as I understand their focus on software at the moment and their trying to find hardware partners, I really would like to see a sailfish tablet. So for now I just have to wait (and my money as well).

But there is another reason why I dont like to donate my contribution - at least at the moment: Jolla did have a REALLY bad communication strategy. And having so I lost some trust in Jolla and their future direction. As soon as I see what Jolla wants to be (may be they know but they dont communicate!) I will see how I can support them....

M.Bln. ( 2016-03-26 15:52:16 +0300 )edit

answered 2016-03-17 09:36:04 +0300

ossi1967 gravatar image

I think it shows your character, 00prometheus. Respect! I guess quite a few people will follow you here. We've seen such comments around ever since Jolla said there'd be a "refund".

It's also important to understand that those who supported the IGG campaign actually donated their money long ago via IGG. If Jolla pays you something in return now, it's more of a gift, not a refund. Here's where tortoisedoc's view is a bit distorted: It's not about "giving away" money that's yours. It's about not taking money that's theirs. You already donated it, you can't donate it twice. Nor can you pretend the donation never happened.

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I think that your wording is driving the pendulum to the other extreme, to a degree that something that is technically sort of right really appears to be wrong.

The nature of a donation is really to support another party in what they are doing only for the purpose the see them succeed. So one may donate to UNICEF or Sea Shepherds or the needy person begging at the next corner. You don't expect anything back personally.

While there are crowd funding campaigns whose nature is exactly build after that model ('Help ABC to pay for her much needed eye-operation'...), it is quite common that a campaign is meant to fund establishing the infrastructure to produce something desirable and as a compensation for that help you get an instance of that desirable thing. The established word for such a payment is 'contribution'. Even though you might argue that this change in wording doesn't change a thing about the legal status not being much different from a donation technically (which I am actually not so sure is true), it really attributes the fact that neither the contributor, nor the campaigner, nor the platform maintainer such a campaign things of the payments as donations.

So really, using that word here to that extend as you do may provoke more anger than enlightenment by many, I could imagine.

hubat ( 2016-03-17 09:56:32 +0300 )edit

@hubat: I understand what you mean, but I have a background as a lawyer, not a marketing droid. At the university, I didn't learn how to phrase things beautifully so people will swallow them easily. My studies were about who owns what and how he/ she can get it (back).

The example you brought up about the eye operation is more fitting than you might have thought. Imagine such a campaign succeeds in gathering the money, but the patient unexpectedly dies during the surgery. Would you expect people to take their money back from the heirs in such a case because the patient wasn't successfully treated?

There is a reason why IGG supporters (does anyone remember the meaning of this word?) are handled differently than those who actually bought the tablet from the shop.

ossi1967 ( 2016-03-17 10:50:20 +0300 )edit

@ossi1967 totally agree with your answer. and that for me a sign of a human and serious company. Which do it, but could need the money for having the head still above the water...

cemoi71 ( 2016-03-17 11:09:43 +0300 )edit

@hubat yes the word donation used on this context that you told is wrong. That is still a contribution what is meant.
Seems that jolla wanted to give an other word on it, since the finalisation process of the tablet went wrong, and goes to the next process. From word "contribution" could be done an other one like "gift" or "present" but both are bound to the wish of the person who give it, some of tjc don't want to make it. Would be misinterpreted...
As we know now what jolla think with it, and why they use it.
I think that at the end,we may let it as donation word... that just a question of details, otherwise would make some head-bang uselessly ... Best regards

cemoi71 ( 2016-03-17 11:26:09 +0300 )edit

answered 2016-03-17 09:14:24 +0300

tortoisedoc gravatar image

updated 2016-03-17 09:15:21 +0300

Giving away the refund has never been an option for me. I expected a product, it was not delivered; hence, a refund is very much appreciated.

I can also note that

a) it's really just a matter of principle rather than money

b) fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

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answered 2016-03-17 12:34:51 +0300

rgrnetalk gravatar image

I was surprised to find a refund mail in my mailbox. I requested and received a refund (fully) by my credit card company which requested and received an IGG chargeback. Of course I won't request a refund, but why was I invited to do so? And to answer the question: I didn't donate because the Jolla communication was so terrible during the project that I got frustrated...
Still a fan, but a little bit less...

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Because your credit card company handles this with IGG instead of Jolla and information between IGG and Jolla about this haven't been exchanged yet (or won't ever be handled with Jolla and IGG will take the hit here).

avhakola ( 2016-03-17 23:59:47 +0300 )edit

answered 2016-03-22 20:14:31 +0300

Vinder gravatar image

I selected refund option because I did not get the tablet and some parts of the Sailfish OS is proprietary software. If completely open sourced, I would like to support the development in the future.

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answered 2016-03-20 14:26:29 +0300

AHT gravatar image

I chose the refund option but the money will be allocated still for future Jolla/Sailfish products

I already supported Jolla by lending $114.5 for 1.5 years and another $114,5 for unspecified time at 0% interest rate.

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answered 2016-03-17 23:26:53 +0300

Marti Masa K gravatar image

I would prefer an option to refund half of the money! The current way of 2 choices is too hard!

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There has been talks on Jolla Blog about you being able to donate the 2nd half of the refunds when the time comes for it so maybe they implement it and give you the option when they have money to refund the 2nd half.

avhakola ( 2016-03-18 00:01:46 +0300 )edit

I second that motion!

cma ( 2016-03-18 20:30:08 +0300 )edit

answered 2016-03-18 10:38:46 +0300

MariusP gravatar image

I found a possible alternative to the Jolla Tablet: BQ Aquaris M10 Ubuntu Edition with convergence, which will be worldwide available probably in April 2016. I wanted so much the Jolla Tablet, but now I am open to other possibilities. So I opted for refunding on Jolla Tablet, to use my money for the Ubuntu Tablet. But I will buy another SailfishOS powered phone, probably next year.

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BQ Aquaris M10 Ubuntu Edition is now available for preorder on . I preordered one. It will be delivered in a couple of weeks.

MariusP ( 2016-03-28 18:38:06 +0300 )edit

answered 2016-03-17 04:15:03 +0300

SilentWanderer gravatar image

I think with a nice personal email addressed to myself I might have done the same. You having donated the cash without the above is commendable. I think you are an un-selfish person (not just me me me), ie rare gem! Good day to you good sir.

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answered 2016-03-17 09:51:03 +0300

Okw gravatar image

I was about to take the refund, but appears that I cannot since the status of my order is "Shipping pending". A disclaimer below the form states that in this situtation there should be soon a invitation to finalize the order. This was sort of uplifting, since I might get the tablet afterall!

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Lucky one! :)

tortoisedoc ( 2016-03-17 10:10:52 +0300 )edit

Yes same with me. Confusing email but I guess the lucky ones are the minority.

Pim ( 2016-03-18 10:28:10 +0300 )edit

I bought one Jolla Tablet 64GB from a lucky one of you first batch IGG contributor. Luck doubled :) Lurking in buy/sell turned out successful. I already had in corner a Lastu Case collecting dust which I had ordered directly from Lastu webshop long ago. So, disliking the idea of contributing twice the amount for one device I opted in refund inquiry. I'm eagerly follow if when or will TOH be revived to next generation Sailfish phones.

DarkWhite ( 2016-03-25 02:16:18 +0300 )edit
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Asked: 2016-03-17 03:31:55 +0300

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Last updated: Aug 04 '16