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Should I switch from Sailfish to CyanogenMod? --> No [answered]

asked 2014-03-26 10:11:58 +0300

ray-ven
1885 ●41 ●62 ●66

updated 2014-04-03 21:37:14 +0300

Well, I really like my Jolla, especially the gui feels very good. Still I'm not fully convinced. Here's why:

Not really open source (gui etc) (huge reason for me)
Lack of features (Webcal, better syncing, LTE, Bluetoothtethering, navigation, customizable browser, vpn)
Lack of app-security
almost no cases and other accessories

Well, I know, it's a brand new os, and I accepted a lot of missing features on my n900 as well but am a bit fed up with that. I just want an open and secure phone with standard apps - no gaming or highly specialized things.

What do you guys think?

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The question has been closed for the following reason "the question is answered, an answer was accepted" by molan
close date 2014-09-24 16:32:25.379261

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For me it sounds you may have purchased the wrong handset as you seem to be looking for mature product rather then a developing product. I would consider the following

New features are being added on a nearly monthly basis which is faster then any other smartphone OS.
Source code is slowly being released subject to commercial constraints. there are some aspects that cannot be released due to 3rd party code.
Community has real input in to the development of the product.

So far I have been impressed with Jolla, and I think it is certainly comparable to other 1st attempts (consider the original iphone did not have MMS or 3G, original android was also missing some features while being ugly)

For me I am not going back to Cyanogen Mod. It feels too old compared to jolla ;-)

PJW_2273 ( 2014-03-26 11:33:18 +0300 )edit

This is becoming a near duplicate to https://together.jolla.com/question/33158/cyanogenmod-on-jolla/

jgr ( 2014-03-26 15:18:21 +0300 )edit

Original Iphone, didn't even had copy paste, lol

dsilveira ( 2014-03-27 02:19:46 +0300 )edit

I feel with you.

The browser is a nuisance: slow start up, wobbly scrolling, random moving of content along the y-axis. Well, I use opera, works well. Only it took me quite some work to make opera my default browser: adb has to be enabled, but then iptables has to be used to block access from unwanted places. Also the url handler has to be changed.
Imap support has not ever heard of imap idle (a.k.a. push mail) and only checks the INBOX folder. Workaround: set the email check interval to 5 mins and write some sieve script lines on the email server side to make all mails pass the INBOX folder when arriving.
timed randomly dies out on me, not responding on dbus anymore, and thus leaving the alarm clock functionality of my Jolla in an unknown state. Workaround: Restart the phone often enough to prevent timed from dying.
cardDAV support simply does not work. Workaround: Use SyncEvolution to sync contacts and trigger regular sync using timedclient.
calDAV support was working nicely, but tadaa DST kicked in, and all newly created events are off by one hour after they got synced once.
WiFi often gets into some trouble state from which it does not ever recover by itself, even though manually toggling WiFi fixes the problem. As if that wasn't annoying enough, Jolla does not even try to use the mobile data connection when WiFi has a problem. It rather stays in its connectionless state.

And all this some 1.5 years after the phone was released :-(

Jolly-Jo ( 2015-04-07 11:45:40 +0300 )edit

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answered 2014-03-26 12:45:10 +0300

cyber_fusion
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updated 2014-03-26 14:09:11 +0300

jgr
1589 ●123 ●155 ●177

I'll bite, and I'll even I'll keep it civil. First, a preface:

"You should do whatever you want, but realize that you are requesting info on a Jolla community site"

As for your points, easily refuted:

Not really open source:

Neither is Android. It's even worse, it's not just the UI but everything. I would call it free but not open. And not even close to being community driven.

Sources:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/
http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/what-google-really-means-when-it-calls-android-open/

Lack of features: (Already addressed by @PJM_2273, but let me append;)

Google cal syncs, improvements are coming. LTE, it's coming. Remember, other together posts list ways to do VPN and Bluetoothtethering, I'm sure the UI will catch up. "Customizable browser" what does that mean ? There are alternative browsers in the Jolla Store...

Almost no cases and no other accessories: Apart from the themed TOHs, and some community projects for slide keyboard, solar charging, wireless charging, extra sensors you're right. But realize that NONE of the Android phones have that (unless you're thinking of things like vendor locked sport wristbands. Even those are BT enabled, meaning they could work with jolla if one were to create the software). Anyway how is CyanogenMod related to this ?

The Lack of app-security model:

Android's security model is woefully inadequate (I would even call it retarded). You can't pick which permission you give to the app, it's all or nothing. App wants GPS, why can't I ask the system to give it random values ? Not to mention the security bugs.

Sources (other type of security, but still relevant):

http://www.xda-developers.com/android/replicant-devs-discover-backdoor-in-samsung-android-devices/

Furthermore the whole Dalvik/Java stack is terribly inefficient compared to native code. It uses linux underneath but it reimplements the whole stack again, that is a backwards, resource heavy way of doing it, just to cater the lowest denominator Java programmer. Jolla leverages proper linux infrastructure, things like systemd, pulse, wayland (In some regards ahead of desktop systems). Which is why you don't need a quad core phone + car battery to make a fast system.

TD;DR : New operating system is New. Things will be added, Android alternative requires more processing power, and it's neither community driven not really open source.

PS: Sorry if it came off as a rant/vent.

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thank you for your really well researched answer! And no, you didn't come of as a rant or vent. It's the other way around. I'm at most concerned about security.

you said: Android's security model is woefully inadequate (I would even call it retarded). You can't pick which permission you give to the app, it's all or nothing

but what's the difference in sailfish?

The second: CyanogenMod is OSS afaik, isn't it? It's not as closed as Android.

It's not that I'm really switching to another device, it's just that I wanna know why I'm waiting :-)

ray-ven ( 2014-03-26 14:25:18 +0300 )edit

If you really want to go the android open-source route, your best bet is Replicant.

Sources:
http://www.replicant.us/http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/android-and-users-freedom.html

cyber_fusion ( 2014-03-26 15:49:28 +0300 )edit

@ray-ven I'm just curious, in original question you said 'Not really open source (gui etc) (huge reason for me)'. I'm all for allowing anybody picking alternative one feels best suited to own needs, but can you open this a bit more?

Where did you came to that conclusion? It is not first time I see Jolla is being poked about it. Is it talented developers have fingers burnig to help Jolla out to improve Silica compoinents etc. faster or what?

I see problem of Jolla 'being slow' on opening up UI code is just a small annoyance compared for example Google aggressively moving code to closed Google services side, closing doors from 'open' alternatives, still in many reader comments I see the two put into parallel, and so this misleading information keeps on spreading to eyes who don't have enough background to see the diference.

targon ( 2014-03-26 22:38:06 +0300 )edit

@ray-ven: "CyanogenMod is OSS afaik, isn't it?" -- you could Google it yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyanogenMod#Licensing. In short: It is not (completely) open source.

Also of interest may be: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyanogenMod#Commercialization_controversy

If you want really and completely open source, you would have to go for some other projects, see e.g. discussions https://together.jolla.com/question/20488/which-parts-of-sailfish-are-closed-source-why-and-will-that-change/

(And now this question should be closed, it meanwhile is a duplicate of other threads running here already.)

jgr ( 2014-03-26 22:47:24 +0300 )edit

@ray-ven, If you're really serious about security, Android is definately the last place you should look, for all the things @cyber_fusion said, plus, Dalvik isn't just terribly ineficient, it's also pretty unsecure. Also If you think you can trust Google to not put any backdoors on there (Yes, no-one else read all the code), like the one replicant found, your sorely mistaken. Remember that Google has the power to remotey uninstall your apps?

dsilveira ( 2014-03-27 02:30:47 +0300 )edit

answered 2014-04-03 21:49:09 +0300

ray-ven
1885 ●41 ●62 ●66

CyanogenMod is an interresting approach, but replicant seems to fullfill my mentioned purposes better. Anyway - if Jolla keeps opening things, and license-information will be added on jolla-store apps, I won't switch to anything else. I really like the UI, speed and low power consumption of sailfish.

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Should I switch from Sailfish to CyanogenMod? --> No [answered]

The question has been closed for the following reason "the question is answered, an answer was accepted" by molan
close date 2014-09-24 16:32:25.379261

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Should I switch from Sailfish to CyanogenMod? --> No [answered]

The question has been closed for the following reason "the question is answered, an answer was accepted" by molan close date 2014-09-24 16:32:25.379261

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The question has been closed for the following reason "the question is answered, an answer was accepted" by molan
close date 2014-09-24 16:32:25.379261