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ARM SoC please. No more intel monopoly! [answered]

asked 2014-11-20 14:03:29 +0200

ckonstantinos
21 ●1 ●1 ●2

For the following reasons:

Intel is holding thousands of x86 patents and is a locked out of competition architecture.

Top ARM SoCs have better performance/watt and many times better graphics performance than current atoms(e.g. compare bay trail to nvidia K1 GPU)

I'm sick and tired of buying overpriced CPUs from Intel the last 25 year. Finally ARM provides a healthy ground for new Hardware Manufacturers to emerge.

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The question has been closed for the following reason "the question is answered, an answer was accepted" by molan
close date 2015-06-16 22:55:26.598066

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4

Linux video drivers and software compatibility are a mess on ARM. The Intel OPENSOURCE (!) video drivers are just awesome ! That makes the choice for ATOM absolutely the right one !

morinehtar0 ( 2014-11-20 14:44:05 +0200 )edit

intel has opensource drivers wich is pretty important also x86 means tons of software

michel ( 2014-11-20 14:44:28 +0200 )edit

Every year intel goes down with its manufacturing process. Atom soc used in Jolla tablet propably will be manufactured in 22nm process which matters in terms of power consmuption. Dual core qualcomm in jolla phone is 32nm and I can see it consumes even less current than single core processor in my nokia n9 (omap 36x0 45nm 1ghz)...and nokia n900 (omap 34x0 60nm 600mhz).

Mądry ( 2014-11-20 16:57:33 +0200 )edit

I suggest to close this as "too localized" and add the idea as an answer to an older question https://together.jolla.com/question/64327/why-intel/ handling all the possible options, Arm being just one possibility. @ckonstantinos Welcome along, let's keep the corners clean ;)

simo ( 2014-11-20 21:21:41 +0200 )edit

What about patent for GFX like Nvidia, PowerVR and so on used on ARM?! Atleast Intel has some open GFX drivers...

mike7b4 ( 2014-11-22 13:12:01 +0200 )edit

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answered 2014-11-20 14:18:00 +0200

bnys
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Hello, You should know that Intel does not have a monopoly in the mobile space. Its Atom chips are far from overpriced, in fact the company is heavily subsidizing the cost of Atom parts until next year. So, while a Tegra K1 will obviously perform better, Intel is likely giving Jolla a sweetheart deal. It's why the Tablet is so inexpensive, while also offering what sounds like a very decent IPS LCD. So, are you willing to pay a lot more just to stick it to Intel? Or willing to have Jolla de content nice aspects of the product? Designing hardware is expensive and hard!

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2

You are right about Intel heavily subsidizing its atom mobile SoCs.

So I'm asking you (rhetorically) why Intel is doing this? Because for the first time in many years faces tough competition from ARM SoC manufacturers. So it tries to kill the competition with subsidies...

Anyway, I don't think K1 is that much more expensive. I think it's bulk price to manufacturers is around $40/SoC. And there are many other ARM Manufacturers with great ARM SoC for even less. (MTK, Allwinner, Rockchip, Qualcomm, Amlogic etc). That's the beauty of an open to competition architecture!

ckonstantinos ( 2014-11-20 14:36:44 +0200 )edit

I don't think nvidia would supply Jolla with their K1 socs for such small quantities. Also the price you've mentioned is quite high for single soc. It would be about 20% of price of the whole tablet...ONE CHIP.

Mądry ( 2014-11-20 16:42:28 +0200 )edit

Yes, the ZenFone uses Intel chip and it is quite cheap.

Quân ( 2014-11-21 04:51:21 +0200 )edit

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answered 2014-11-20 14:07:57 +0200

Okw

4369 ●53 ●62 ●69

The hardware is decided already.

https://together.jolla.com/question/63823/jolla-tablet-considering-hardware-requests-usefulness/

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answered 2014-11-20 14:51:44 +0200

mforce2
21 ●3

I do not agree with you here. Intel has much better support and has fully open source GPU drivers to which they contribute and they maintain. I'm not sure if this one has Intel graphics or PowerVr graphics but x86 hardware is still much, much easier to deal with and support. I mean just think how with x86 hardware you can throw in the latest kernel and it just works no mess, no fuss, no porting needed. Yes ARM is getting there but it's still not there. An Intel SOC with Intel graphics is the best option if you want the best open source support and great upgrade ability.

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That's a good point. Open source GPU drivers are very important and unfortunately not many companies provide them. I think nVidia does not but other ARM Manufacturers do. I think Amlogic and Allwinner provides them for their top SoCs

ckonstantinos ( 2014-11-20 15:06:06 +0200 )edit

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Amlogic and Allwiner socs ship with pvr/mali gpus which do not have open source userspace drivers.

Mądry ( 2014-11-20 16:31:26 +0200 )edit

Actually other than Broadcom for their Videocore IV found in the Raspberry Pi no other ARM vendor provides open source video drivers. nVidia does kind of have open source video drivers for their Tegra K1 but it's through Noveau where they have started to contribute but it's not oficially backed by them and is usually not of the same quality and performance as a properly supported driver.

Don't forget Jolla needs Linux and Wayland here so if they want to ditch libhybris and all the Android stuff an Intel SOC is the best option.

mforce2 ( 2014-11-20 21:21:04 +0200 )edit

Here is Amlogics open source linux kernel + drivers for Mali GPU:

http://www.cnx-software.com/2014/03/10/amlogic-gpl-source-code-release-kernel-3-10-u-boot-and-drivers-wi-fi-nand-tvin-mali-gpu/

http://openlinux.amlogic.com:8000/download/ARM/gpu/gpu-2014-03-06-0425a1f681.tar.gz

ckonstantinos ( 2014-11-21 01:59:41 +0200 )edit

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answered 2014-11-20 21:14:50 +0200

mariner
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It is quite likely that using Intel Soc means that hardware can be updated more often for more power, extra features more easily in a controlled iterative fashion than the Arm route where it often seems to involve a complete redesign each time, This will allow smaller companies like Jolla to update products more often with less effort and so avoid very long development cycle and comparatively outdated and over priced products like Jolla phone which is now in serious need of updating.

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answered 2014-11-22 12:44:17 +0200

mariner
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Intel has learned from ARM. I believe they licensed some technology in the past. This is a commercial issue with no place for sentiment even though I would like to support ARM as probably the only remaining serious UK technology company in this sort of field.

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ARM SoC please. No more intel monopoly! [answered]

The question has been closed for the following reason "the question is answered, an answer was accepted" by molan
close date 2015-06-16 22:55:26.598066

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ARM SoC please. No more intel monopoly! [answered]

The question has been closed for the following reason "the question is answered, an answer was accepted" by molan close date 2015-06-16 22:55:26.598066

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The question has been closed for the following reason "the question is answered, an answer was accepted" by molan
close date 2015-06-16 22:55:26.598066