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suggestion for solving conflict of interest for the cover gesture by sfos 2.0 [not relevant]

asked 2015-03-07 23:34:41 +0300

cemoi71 gravatar image

updated 2015-09-14 16:39:35 +0300

Hello all,
after a well done observation of g7 from the sfos code, and the mwc15 video of the Tablet.
Seems to be that the cover actions will be reduced to just one action as pulling.
Until now, the cover actions was on number of two with swiping.

Someone told the argument, it was "noticed that this was the way most new users tried to handle the cover shortcuts: by tapping on them. So it will probably be easier for new users to use this feature".
This was a pertinent remark. For the most of new users, the naturally way to use the cover action should be by taping.

And i agree with a lot of sailors, the swiping one is far the most powerful actions.
I understand that could be make angry, that it disappear.
What i don't understand is the strong critic, with non constructive words against jolla-team.
Hard words, threat to drop out, .. &so on.
Most of all are without any suggestions.

So now place of some suggestions:
According that by delivery, all the devices are the same for all (that's obvious).
And after unpack it, then, all the the device will be prepared for our own use.

One of the solution (as suggestion) for solving this conflict of interest, would be to build both functions inside.
And user could activate the beloved one through the os parameter.
As default would be the device delivered with the taping gesture, and through parameter changing the user could activate the swiping one.
I think it is easy to develop. And every one are happy.

Update 16.03.2015:
After the pertinent remark of Christian Emlek (here under), i would say, some gui-moves should be spared and other should be activated, exactly at the moment when the finger touch the cover control.
If jolla dev-team care of this event (finger touch the display on the cover control), then the gui-move that seems to interfere with the use swipe-cover-actions could be spared, so that the swipe-cover-actions could be used without interferences. That means that the event "finger touch the cover action" should be well catched.
Naturally if the gui-machine could not catch this specific event, then there is a big problem.

Update 14.09.2015:
As many people suggested too.
it would make sense, and will be welcome, if there could be an introduction guide for new users on how could we use some specifics and best-feature of the system. could avoid to make some nice features disappear when unskilled person doesn't take time to discover it. At the first side it could appears not natural. but at the end, it could serve, fulfil new perspectives and be a must-have.

Not forget, that people comes to sailfish, because sailfish has its specialities, its own visions. ignoring it could bring to a conventional system which propose just the same as the existing ones. do people here want have a duplicate of something else?

Please give your mind and vote ..

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The question has been closed for the following reason "question is not relevant or outdated" by cemoi71
close date 2019-10-07 02:11:28.385632



i am convinced that jolla-team managers are well intelligent enough, to come on this alternative too. That is more or less a diplomatic try from me.

And i must admit, that i am curious on how many people are interested on it, from the both side of the force. the taping one or the swipe one.

cemoi71 ( 2015-03-07 23:35:04 +0300 )edit

The problem is with apps developed for having two cover swipe gestures. They could loose essential features when used with only one tap-button.

Tanghus ( 2015-03-07 23:52:10 +0300 )edit

Iirc there are covers with two actions in the demos... To have the standard setup be a light normal mode with buttons and stuff and an advanced mode with everything gesture was already mentioned in comments and I brought it up on twitter too.

chemist ( 2015-03-08 00:33:28 +0300 )edit

@Tanghus they could loose a lots of users if they don't understand the mechanism of the swiping action...

@chemist please give you references?

I am really sceptic if it's efficient to have 2 button in tap mode on a 7" tablet. We should consider each button as a capacitive zone where the finger aura by touching should not overshoot to the other one. With the size of the cover that i have seen on the mwc video, that was for me clear that it could not have two button near of each other (at least for my fingers, and i don't have the wider one).

cemoi71 ( 2015-03-08 00:58:23 +0300 )edit

they could loose a lots of users if they don't understand the mechanism of the swiping action...

Swiping is the essential part of SFOS. I must admit that I myself made the mistake of tapping instead of swiping the first few days after I got the phone, but dumbing down essential features is not the answer.

And I'd like to see references to two button tap examples as well. Not that it would suffice as IMHO it would be too difficult to use. The swipe action is the perfect solution to the Fat Finger Syndrome ;)

Tanghus ( 2015-03-08 01:58:01 +0300 )edit

5 Answers

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answered 2015-03-08 03:30:19 +0300

Christian Emlek gravatar image

updated 2015-03-08 04:56:36 +0300

@cemoi71 Actually the problem here is not only the choice between tap or swipe for cover actions. From what I understood by reading posts here and some twitts, the problem is, we could not use swipes on covers beacuse of the new SFOS 2.0 user interface which adds the Carroucel (Home view with covers, Event View and Partner Space), so now you have to perform the swipe inside the screen (not from edges). When on Home view, the horizontal swipe inside the screen will be used to scroll throught Carroucel and it seems that the vertical gesture inside the screen will be used to scroll through all open apps if more than 9 apps are open.

App drawer move to the bottom edge swipe is great for multitasking and it makes multitasking even more powerful, but it also creates the loose of cover actions swipe, which was a very good, easy to use with one hand while moving and powerful feature not seen in any other OS. Such fantastic feature make SFOS "unlike", and was also part of powerful multitasking, I mean make actions without open the app.

Actually one solution would be use left/right edge swipe to go throught Carroucel Panels instead of inside screen swipes (this won't be natural either for new users), if you think about it, it makes sens as you swipe from edges when you change app or view, while inside swipe is used to go throught content or pages of same app. therefore horizontal swipes on covers would be possible as an option alongside tap option.

Regarding the argument, users "who try to tap on cover buttons the first time they use the Jolla Phone", well if Jolla have to design the UI to match not Jolla Phone users behavior, SFOS will become more and more like Android as almost 80% of Smartphone users use Android and everyone knows when we use something it becomes natural by habbit. I thought Jolla wanted to build something new and "unlike", and that was one of my reasons to love and support Jolla.

I hope that Jolla will find an acceptable solution for their first fans and suporters alongise the seek for new users and partners.

I hope also that Jolla will still consider the first UI philosophy of SFOS (powerful multitasking, one hand use, all screen estate used for user content, openness, security, be "Unlike") when such big changes are made.

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@Christian Emlek sorry for late answer currently i have many things to manage.
maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong.
Normally i would say, some gui moves should be spared and other should be activated when the finger touch the cover control. If jolla care of this event (finger touch the display on the cover control) then the gui move that you described could be spared, so that the other one that we beloved could be activated.
Naturally if the gui-machine could not catch this specific event, then there is a problem. Then i would say, this event should be developed.

cemoi71 ( 2015-03-11 09:08:15 +0300 )edit

what do you think about this thinking?

cemoi71 ( 2015-03-11 09:09:21 +0300 )edit

Not quiet right, inside pulls are added to outside swipes, the old UI had the ambience-switcher where the events-view is now, so actually the carousel set-up was always 3 horizontal pages (count the partner-screen), up and down pull was bringing you back to lockscreen. So what they actually did is remove the pulls from covers and add them to the carousel which now has inside and outside pull/swipe to move around. Same for launcher, up pull and up swipe are doing the same now, as events view moved bottom swipe upwards is the same as pulling up. You have two gestures reserved for the same action now. It is arguably that you can swipe up launcher without pulling 9+ covers now but that is not that a feature, is it? The argument we are facing is "it is easier for new users!", sure it is easier for android and iphone users to use an UI that is closer to the same but that does not mean it is in general a good idea to sacrifice good navigation features and action gestures for the same. People who never had a smartphone will be even more overwhelmed by the android UI than they will be by SFOS1.0 - android is the one that needs a redesign from scratch and a proper tutorial on device (Jolla already has that and some neat hint overlays got sacrificed for no good reason it seems!)

chemist ( 2015-09-14 16:49:10 +0300 )edit

maybe you'Re right but you can tell how it works but for people who are not early access, or have no device. hear about a new system and could see some video of old design. how could make this people their own build of the current one. if no tuto or demo are present on the web?

cemoi71 ( 2015-09-14 17:06:15 +0300 )edit

"so now you have to perform the swipe inside the screen" -> you could do that but don't have to.

Why use horizontal, inside swipe and for just that purpose give up covers swipes when the same can be accomplished by edge swipes? Maybe because you don't like to move your fingers or hand a larger distance, for example on a tablet which will be held in landscape mode, rather than portret?

Anyway: options please. Settings / Gestures / Swipe cover action instead of button ON / OFF.

vandersmash ( 2015-09-15 14:53:04 +0300 )edit

answered 2015-03-08 10:20:16 +0300

NuklearFart gravatar image

The Sailfish like swipe gesture needs just to be in the introductary guide and thats it. By e.g. opening music player, start play, swipe it away and then pause or next song anyone would be able to HEAR and SEE what happens.

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Hei, agreed! I once was new to the UI/UX, I had zero problems. Because most new users are lazy... oh, sorry! I mean, skipping the user guide is more convenient then taking the time... Loosing numorous useful (and much used!!) features to please some coming from other platforms. Is it really the way? To me, the new UI is more of a fancy Android launcher, but nothing special. Unlike the current UI that is outstanding. LVPVS out.

LVPVS ( 2015-03-09 08:20:44 +0300 )edit

answered 2015-10-01 00:33:27 +0300

M.Bln. gravatar image

Copy from here:

What about this: why not put new caroussel sites (events and partner space) next to the top menu? The change could be optional / configurable with a menu entry in settings.

This way you can still use horizontal swipes for cover action in home site. Compare here: You would have sites ordered in Form of a "T" instead of an cross.

What do you think sailors?

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@M.Bln. with "top menu" do you mean "home" screen (or view)?

why not put new carousel sites (events and partner space) **next** to the top menu?

with the word "next" do you mean "beside"?
Sorry for asking to those details (or convention) but every one use different, and make things little bit difficult. me too use "panel" for the carousel. have no problem to use something else if it the same for all...

cemoi71 ( 2015-10-01 19:08:07 +0300 )edit

it interest me too

cemoi71 ( 2015-10-01 19:08:32 +0300 )edit

@cemoi71: in short words: yes - "next" in the sense of "beside", compare my answer here:

M.Bln. ( 2015-10-03 22:01:52 +0300 )edit

answered 2015-09-15 14:12:18 +0300

inte gravatar image

I still find pull-down-covers from OR the best approach to still have more then one cover gesture applicable and get rid of these anoying buttons. The buttons suck big time, in either case.

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answered 2015-03-18 01:39:17 +0300

M.Bln. gravatar image

updated 2015-03-18 01:40:07 +0300

I agree with the OP as well as with Christian Emlek. But there is a more general solution for this problem, see:

I do see the problem with Carroucel and the beloved horizontal cover actions. But Sailfish supports multi finger gestures as well - so that can be an easy solution to change one of the inner horizontal swipes into one for two fingers.

If Jolla manages to make the gestures customizable anybody can change the interaction to ones own preferences. To make it perfect Jolla could support profiles as well so you could create a profile that works like SailfishOS 1 as well as a profile that works like the beta of SailfishOS 2!

Any additions to this idea anybody?

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Main gestures must be non-multitouch for the phone and preferably for the tablet too. What SFOS2 does is duplicating a lot of gestures being actually quiet good for both tablet and phone. Starting from lock-screen: SFOS1 is missing horizontal swipes and pulls (pulls could be used for notification items and swipes as additional unlock) but has the events-view on swipe-up and the home-screen on pull-up and 3 fav apps as pulley - SFOS2 has 2 different horizontal swipes, while being the same as horizontal pulls, no pulley, no interaction with icons, the launcher on swipe-up and no pull-up; so what are the differences in usability moving from 1.x to 2.0? Considered this is a proper mulit-tasking OS I have most frequently used apps already running so no need for the launcher on the hot-seat, when using it with one hand I cannot access the other side easily (even if you could swap sides for horizontal actions), no fav apps in pulley, no interaction with items (and don't make them buttons to interact with them! NO BUTTONS!) - so either I get to home-screen and then to events-view or I get to events-view and then to home-screen, that was the most annoying part of Harmattan as you always end up on the last screen/app used and therefore need to remember that when you unlock so muscle-memory flicks you to where you actually want to go (this already breaks at "need to remember") - that was only the lock-screen... don't get me started with the others... even if gestures are configurable, what do you want Jolla to do? Make the whole UI-pane setup be configurable? Doubt that will gonna happen, ever!

chemist ( 2015-03-18 03:18:28 +0300 )edit

that is maybe an aspect of definition, and as for a current system, or a planned new one. it must be documented and maybe a kind of mockup or demo part to give the vision/concept to all. so that they could feel the feeling growing (heavy-handed english sorry).

cemoi71 ( 2015-09-14 16:42:18 +0300 )edit

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Asked: 2015-03-07 23:34:41 +0300

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Last updated: Oct 01 '15