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Did Jolla ever even _try_ to get a big player to license Sailfish for high-end hardware? [not relevant]

asked 2016-10-06 23:26:18 +0300

StaticNoiseLog gravatar image

updated 2016-10-07 11:05:48 +0300

nadir gravatar image

Glad to see that Sailfish OS is alive!

But I would want our favourite OS officially supported on a high-end piece of hardware. Something like a Huawei P9, Sony Xperia, etc.

Most importantly, I need a phone that works everywhere, not limited to some region. For me this means: Europe, USA and South America. At least.

Frankly, I have the impression that Jolla's management almost compulsively avoids the western market and is betting their future solely on the BRICs countries (without Brazil, unfortunately) and Africa. While there is nothing wrong with being present in these markets (and the deal with Intex is highly appreciated!) I still think that establishing a new brand is better done from the high-end than from the low-end. Apple created the smartphone market with the iPhone, Samsung is the Android leader because they build the best hardware (not only the cheapest one). Even Canonical got it right when they envisioned the Ubuntu Edge.

The question to you out there is: Does anybody have insight into Jolla's business strategy? Does Jolla even try to license Sailfish OS to major players (Sony, LG, Huawei, Xiaomi, HTC, Asus, Samsung, Nokia, etc)?

If Jolla has tried: What answers did they get?

If Jolla does not even want to try: What is the reason? Commies at heart, no deal with capitalists? Investors exclusively Russian? Deep-seated emotional fear of rejection?

Looking at Google's Pixel phones it seems that Google wants to become the next Apple and does not care too much about their Android partners. So I would imagine that now is an excellent time to offer an alternative to the big manufacturers.

What do you think: Would you not prefer an 800.- US$ Sailfish device that works in every country and has all the great HW features of a high-end smartphone over a 200.- US$ device with mediocre specs? Do you think there would be a market for a high-end Sailfish device? Would you buy one? I know I would :-)

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The question has been closed for the following reason "question is not relevant or outdated" by JoHe
close date 2017-05-18 17:13:19.807589

Comments

13

More devices running Sailfish OS would indeed be nice. ...regardless of price.

vattuvarg ( 2016-10-06 23:42:54 +0300 )edit
4

This is a blog post, you won't get any kind of official answer to it.

To bounce the question back, though, what do you think? Do you really believe any 'big player' is even remotely interested in bringing devices to the market that don't run the apps 99% of people install on their phone? Devices running software that is lightyears ahead in some aspects but, more importantly, lightyears behind in others? Who would they sell those devices to? The 100000 people who might slightly care about this stuff?

nthn ( 2016-10-07 00:00:23 +0300 )edit
2

Generally you are right, but not about the price.

hoschi ( 2016-10-07 01:07:45 +0300 )edit
4

@nthn

You are right, only Jolla employees could answer my question and they most likely won't. The mystical Jolla investors would probably not appreciate public statements like "Sony did not even let us past the receptionist". But such explanations would satisfy my curiosity :-) The suspicion that bugs me is that Jolla does not even try. If they said "of course we tried, but they would not even listen", then I would be fine.

Sailfish devices surely will not sell in the same numbers as Androids. But the Ubuntu Edge crowdfunding campaign showed that there is at least some interest in a high-end (!) smartphone with an alternative operating system. If Samsung has the money to invest in Tizen it could make sense for them to tentatively offer a popular device like the Galaxy 7 with an alternative choice of OS (same HW). And be it only to demonstrate to Google that they are not totally dependent on them. BTW, I find the Android emulator on my Jolla quite good. I was surprised to see how well most Android programs run, including action games. But, yes, for the time being I would recommend a Sailfish phone only to users with a strong technical background.

StaticNoiseLog ( 2016-10-07 01:10:55 +0300 )edit
8

The sad truth is that Jolla has to make a phone themselves. And it should be N9 level awesome (and then some). Their partners clearly don't understand the gesture nation of SFOS and not a single one of them tried to make a desirable product (from a HW/Features POV).

ApB ( 2016-10-07 01:38:29 +0300 )edit

4 Answers

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22

answered 2016-10-10 14:43:25 +0300

StaticNoiseLog gravatar image

Taking the freedom to reopen this question because I have stumbled over the ugly truth behind why no big player will ever have an interest in licensing Sailfish. I did not know, but Jolla management must be aware of this and that must be the reason we never hear of talks with Sony, Samsung, Nokia and the rest.

Ars Technica: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

To understand it fully you will have to read the article. But here are some quotes:

While it might not be an official requirement, being granted a Google apps license will go a whole lot easier if you join the Open Handset Alliance. The OHA is a group of companies committed to Android—Google's Android—and members are contractually prohibited from building non-Google approved devices. That's right, joining the OHA requires a company to sign its life away and promise to not build a device that runs a competing Android fork.

Acer was bit by this requirement when it tried to build devices that ran Alibaba's Aliyun OS in China. Aliyun is an Android fork, and when Google got wind of it, Acer was told to shut the project down or lose its access to Google apps.

This makes life extremely difficult for the only company brazen enough to sell an Android fork in the west: Amazon. Since the Kindle OS counts as an incompatible version of Android, no major OEM is allowed to produce the Kindle Fire for Amazon. So when Amazon goes shopping for a manufacturer for its next tablet, it has to immediately cross Acer, Asus, Dell, Foxconn, Fujitsu, HTC, Huawei, Kyocera, Lenovo, LG, Motorola, NEC, Samsung, Sharp, Sony, Toshiba, and ZTE off the list. Currently, Amazon contracts Kindle manufacturing out to Quanta Computer, a company primarily known for making laptops. Amazon probably doesn't have many other choices.

My conclusions from all of this:

  • In this light it becomes even more impressive how far Jolla got.
  • The long-term future of Sailfish indeed depends on native apps, or some other kind of total independence from the Google ecosystem. In the meantime partners like Intex are a good choice.
  • Google's motto "Don't be evil." seems to be nothing but a vague echo from days long gone by.
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Comments

3

"Don't be evil" was replaced when Alphabet was formed in October 2015. The new slogan is "Do the right thing".

vattuvarg ( 2016-10-10 14:56:12 +0300 )edit
1

The article from Ars Technica is from 2013.

vattuvarg ( 2016-10-10 15:03:15 +0300 )edit
8

...and Sailfish OS is not a fork of android.

vattuvarg ( 2016-10-10 15:13:06 +0300 )edit
8

I believe that manufacturers have understood at this point that Android is a race to the bottom with Google being the only one that benefits from it (period).

People however don't care as long as they use their favorite Social media app and IM. Those things must be fixed on the Jolla side one way or another. (ie write -not Jolla obviously- better unofficial apps than what is available) This will win a few people. Yes it is a cat and mouse game but its sadly the only way. :/ Also jolla apps -ie email- need to be fixed.

But before all that we need awesome HW that will work in unison with SFOS. You must have something to sell.

ApB ( 2016-10-10 15:17:01 +0300 )edit
5

@vattuvarg: "Sailfish OS is not a fork of Android". Absolutely, and that is why we all like Sailfish. The problem is that many people need the Android emulation layer (Alien Dalvik) because they cannot live without certain popular apps. And Alien Dalvik will have the problems described in the article when it tries to remain compatible with Google's APIs.

StaticNoiseLog ( 2016-10-10 15:21:20 +0300 )edit
5

answered 2016-10-10 19:56:16 +0300

Alex gravatar image

Well all I - as a fan and user from the very beginning - can tell is that in my opinion Jolla is really trying hard to grow big.

Back in 2014 Marc Dillon presented at the Slush event that Jolla had 500+ partnership negotiations and 300+ inquires about becoming Jolla sales channels (Source: YouTube video - Jolla, The Impossible Story Continues).

But the aging Jolla Phone hardware was not selling very well and that surely was a setback to Jolla's early investors...

Also the attempt to release new native hardware (Jolla Tablet) failed because of one failed financing round.

So I think Jolla got cautios after surviving all the death valleys (I am really happy that Jolla is still around!) and they are trying to find decent hardware partners instead of creating own hardware. Jolla is slowly building up the Sailfish alliance (https://sailfishos.org/partners/) and Intex is the first partner licensing Sailfish OS.

Unfortunatelly Jolla's situation before the Intex deal was (and possibly also currently still is) a vicious circle: You have the great Sailfish OS but no native, commonly available and appealing hardware to sell your product on and to show what Jolla and its Sailfish OS is capable of - but just because of this missing hardware Jolla is also unable to attract new investors and hardware partners since they are unable to prove that Sailfish OS is selling.

As Antti Saarnio stated at the last Slush event in 2015 - Jolla is aware of the fact that they are in the need of a decent hardware vendor to sell Sailfish OS phones globally (Source: YouTube video - Jolla's True Story) but Jolla is still unable to fulfill this dream with Intex yet.

I think Jolla needs another partner to manufacture high-end phones and to be able to show the potential of Sailfish OS - Meizu should be an appropriate partner since they are already shipping Ubuntu Phone powered devices, maybe also Xiaomi and other chinese device vendors... Turing Robotic industries may also become a good partner if they would start to produce and sell realistic devices...

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Comments

4

I'm still waiting for a PuzzlePhone with a Jolla brain.

vattuvarg ( 2016-10-10 20:18:24 +0300 )edit

I would refer to SFOS as education, rather than brain. ;)

lakutalo ( 2016-10-10 21:00:10 +0300 )edit
4

Thanks, great response and interesting links! In the video "Jolla's True Story" Antti Saarnio explains what I felt but did not understand: Jolla is indeed looking for investors in the east (especially China). But they have a good reason for this: It seems that investment sums from the east have by-passed (or will by-pass shortly) the sums invested in Silicon Valley.

Let's hope that the deal with Intex will be a great success. Intex is surely capable to build HW competing with, for example, a Huawei P9. And that could be sold internationally. I paid 600.- US$ for the Ubuntu Edge crowd-funding campaign. They raised about 12 Million US$. That means worldwide there are at least 15'000 to 20'000 geeks willing to buy an expensive Linux phone that works in most regions of the world. It is up to Intex to figure out if that would be a viable business or not. Ubuntu decided that it is not, they would have needed about 60'000 freedom fighters. Anyway, as long as Jolla sails on and makes progress there is hope. Small steps seem to be the way. I had been wondering why none of the big players jumped on board of the Jolla. But I see now that it is Google's way of conducting business that closes the door for a freer Android version (which includes Alien Dalvik). And to come up with an entire mobile software ecosystem was difficult even for Microsoft (and not even profitable although they have enough apps by now).

StaticNoiseLog ( 2016-10-10 23:15:01 +0300 )edit

Almost all flagship phones are physically too large.

vattuvarg ( 2016-10-11 02:07:19 +0300 )edit

Sailfish OS would be fast with mid-range hardware.

vattuvarg ( 2016-10-11 02:09:56 +0300 )edit
3

answered 2016-10-11 02:21:09 +0300

launchpad gravatar image

updated 2016-10-11 02:23:36 +0300

Proposed it already on several occasions, that Gigaset would make a good & reliable European HW partner ... not to mention the additional potentials in home automation included - i.e. home automation by native sailfish apps.

Never heard about any advances so far ( neither of an officially supported Fairphone as well :/ ). IMHO the sailors in charge should keep on trying it for real ...


https://together.jolla.com/question/128063/hope-jolla-nokia-joint-venture/?answer=129349#post-id-129349

https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-tablet-differences-old-new-hardware/

[ scroll down to comment: "September 2, 2015 at 5:53 pm" ]

https://blog.jolla.com/next-pipeline-sailfish-os-2-0/

[ scroll down to comment: "September 2, 2015 at 5:46 pm" ]

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Comments

1

Gigaset reliable? They don't even deliver security updates for their android phones let alone promised version updates. And their web page has more ads than content.

michel ( 2016-10-11 14:28:44 +0300 )edit
1

@michel : That's the point : Gigaset should do HW - someone else should deliver / care / assist with SW ;) .... IMHO I think they're too insignificant for just becoming another Android player. Their tablets - even though quite well-designed - already failed marketwise. What a waste of resources ! Basically they want to sell communications & home automation devices / solutions ( with a certain selling point ). Jolla's Sailfish might just turn out of being the distinguishing, lightweight & versatile ecosystem that they actually have been looking for .... How many times I already wished that our jolla tablet could control those [ Velux ] rooflights, that video intercom or some illumination scenarios than relying on all those default pseudo-smart remote controls ? Sailfish-based convergence could be a promising answer ....

launchpad ( 2016-10-12 04:56:52 +0300 )edit
1

answered 2016-10-15 01:42:49 +0300

launchpad gravatar image

updated 2016-10-15 01:52:30 +0300

Lenovo just launched a new "Jolla 2 Phone" by succession*, but felt as a "Jolla 7" in terms of advancement ....

https://together.jolla.com/question/116259/savetheotherhalf-toh-development-deserves-a-quantum-leap/?answer=148461#post-id-148461

Maybe not a bad choice for a HW cooperation at all .... but perhaps just dreaming ;)


*) not counting the "C"

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Asked: 2016-10-06 23:26:18 +0300

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Last updated: Oct 15 '16