Jolla + Sony Xperia Q&A

asked 2017-02-27 17:10:55 +0300

This post is a wiki. Anyone with karma >75 is welcome to improve it.

updated 2017-10-04 19:15:58 +0300

olf
10393 ●104 ●201 ●158

This is the big news. HUUUUUGE news in fact. Every Jolla user expected exactly that. Quality HW and SFOS officially supported by Jolla. But we have questions.

Post questions as separate answers and hopefully @veskuh or @james or anyone else at jolla will answer. In case this doesn't work on TJC we can take the questions to one of the community meetings.

Fire away.

Edit 2017.03.02 by c.la: I suggeted to discuss the Q&A in the upcoming Jolla community meeting, feel free to add yourself as substitute as likely I won't attend.

Edit chemist: if you start a specific Q&A you might also have it as wiki so teh actual Q&A can be added to the op. Please, do not put your questions into answers.

Answers: The answers to most of the questions can be summed in section 3. of This page

Edit 2017.06.29 by William: the blog post

Edit 2017-06-30 by Direc: The blog post now contains an FAQ section as an update.

Edit 2017-07-13 by h.berd: Look at the recent comments of the blog post about the 20MP AOSP driver blog post and maemo

Edit 2017-08-01 by ghling: The blog post was updated to announce the first images are available to the cbeta group.

Edit 2017-09-27 by ghling: According to a new blog post, the sale for Sailfish X now should start October 4th with the first relase still be available October 11th. To flash the images, you will need to use Sony's Emma Tool for Windows. See my recent answer for more details.

Edit 2017-10-04 by olf: From Jolla's shop, "As of October 4 only Jolla Tablet refund voucher customers can use the sales site. The wider sales opening will happen at the same time with the software delivery start.", which is still supposed to happen October 11.

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Comments

32

1) The slides stated that SFOS will be supported on a range of devices. Will those devices be available from the jolla store or a user can buy (from any ventor) and then install SFOS on one.?

2) Will sony give jolla access to the SW that powers its really good cameras so SFOS can fully exploit them?

3) Can we have a compact X on the store tomorrow :P

PS. I am so excited about this :D :D

ApB ( 2017-02-27 17:16:51 +0300 )edit

2

Mee too...almost nose-bleeding like hyped... posting here for later reads hope we will get here more details.

PatsJolla ( 2017-02-27 17:21:42 +0300 )edit

13

4) will it support Android as previous "official" devices?

pemek ( 2017-02-27 17:22:23 +0300 )edit

12

@pemek that would be a must...alien-dalvik is unfortunately too much needed on everyday basis.

PatsJolla ( 2017-02-27 17:24:37 +0300 )edit

11

1.) Will the Dual Sim models be supported if the single sim devices are going to receive SFOS?

2.) When can we expect the first Xperias with SFOS?

Armadillo ( 2017-02-27 17:29:28 +0300 )edit

7

answered 2017-07-01 01:45:56 +0300

ApB
27604 ●302 ●421 ●409

The thing that kind of bums me up with this whole situation (apart from compact X support which is what i wait for) is the download and install yourself. For the tech savvy user its not a big problem but it is hell for everyone else.

No idea who is responsible for this but it could have been handled better between Jolla and Sony open devices.

:/

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i totally agree. if sailfish is NOT preinstalled i dont think it will in any way increase sailfish numbers. it is not much more than the already available community ports. may work better, but the audience are only advanced users. I created the wiki page for available sailfish devices with exactly that in mind: No 1 rule for devices listed in there is preinstalled sailfish. otherwise it cant be called a sailfish device. hope theey will provide this as everything else will in my opinion in no way soread sailfish usage.

kaktux ( 2017-07-01 10:34:07 +0300 )edit

If if is something like download an util connect, the device out of the box to the pc and click it might work. But i doubt it can be done as simple as that. And you have to support three operating systems. But at the end of the day nothing beats open the box and use.

ApB ( 2017-07-04 00:07:07 +0300 )edit

perhaps some experienced user can offer the flashing in exchange for donation ... including shipment, insurance and work it might be ~30-40€ in Europe. Is this price feasible?

deloptes ( 2017-09-25 01:15:48 +0300 )edit

This is an old post, but I'm going to Comment anyway.

Honestly, compared to installing myself, I would personally pay a lot more than €40 for the piece of mind of SFOS preinstallation on a replacement for my Jolla phone. Actually, I'd also love to see the Xa2 running SailfishOS head to head with an android version in a local store, but I'm probably dreaming on that one.

So, options, (and dreams):
Self install - The SFOSX instructions for the Sony X install seem to have hurdles and risks. If the Xa2 install is similar I'd rather not, but if I have to, I suppose so.
Preinstall - Preinstall seems ideal, (that's the state I imported my Jolla phone in after all), I'll have one for my girlfriend too.
Over the counter - Seems not likely in the business plan, certainly in NZ, and even if Jolla & Sony could, most people would probably take the blue pill anyway.

For me, not choosing an option isn't an option. I need a new phone, (or battery), but to me, with any device, the OS is always worth far more than the hardware, and Sailfish is such a nice place to be.

MonkeyControl ( 2018-07-14 11:24:16 +0300 )edit

7

answered 2017-09-27 22:15:03 +0300

Wuestenschiff
108 ●3 ●6 ●12

updated 2017-10-04 09:35:06 +0300

Flash without Sony Software

I am not hyped about the news of the sony flash tool. Sony is the only firm in history to have deployed trojan for commercial interest (DRM). So i would not want to install a Sony Software anywhere. Will it be possible to flash the Image another way?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal

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Comments

3

If you are that serious in avoiding Sony software, Sailfish X might not be the right choice for you. Remember that even after flashing Sailfish onto an Xperia, parts of the original Sony software will be active. Sailfish utilizes Android device drivers which are provided (and may be adapted) by Sony.

ziellos ( 2017-09-28 14:32:54 +0300 )edit

Thanks for the link, very interesting, I hadn't heard of that scandal at the time. But unfortunately they are not the only firm to deploy trojans for commercial interest, more recently it was Lenovo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenovo#Superfish

I agree with you, we need to boycott that kind of companies, but on the other hand we want to support Sailfish. So for now the best option is maybe to buy a second hand Xperia ^^

Sthocs ( 2017-10-04 12:36:25 +0300 )edit

I didn't use Emma, as my device was unrooted, up-to-date and ready for OEM unlocking. No need to flash the device in order dor it to be flashed, if it is already ready. I just used fastboot to unlock and then flash my device.

Direc ( 2017-10-12 22:29:00 +0300 )edit

6

answered 2017-06-30 21:21:42 +0300

Kollin
4658 ●49 ●69 ●69

Q: What happens to the device’s warranty when we install Sailfish OS on it?

A: Sony Open Devices has their own terms for handling unlocked devices, and since installing Sailfish OS requires unlocking of the device, those terms will apply. You can read them by clicking here.

Voiding the warranty If you unlock the boot loader, you may void the warranty of your device and/or any warranty from your operator. See your device’s warranty statement for details. Additionally, due to the modified device software, Sony’s repair network will likely have to replace key components before it can properly test, repair and verify your device using our repair tools and software. Consequently, if Sony performs a warranty repair, Sony will likely charge you a significant service fee for the additional costs caused by your modification of the software.

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Lots of ifs and mays. But what does it actually mean in this very case?

Direc ( 2017-10-12 22:31:04 +0300 )edit

4

answered 2017-07-03 23:48:22 +0300

NuklearFart

1556 ●27 ●48 ●49

I'm an average user with little knowledge about coding and I own Xperia X. Can I be a testing person for daily usage? I'm still using my Jolla 1 phone and it needs some replacement.

(and another interesting thing: will there be at least a community port if this device is not supported?)

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3

They said in the blog post (https://blog.jolla.com/sony-xperia-project-update/) the testing will be done by the C-beta group (closed community testing group of hand picked members) so I don't think you have chance to get the test images before the release version is out there for everyone.

If your Xperia X is the model F5121 single SIM version, then it should work on your phone when they release the image.

avhakola ( 2017-07-04 14:59:17 +0300 )edit

1

yes but they also wrote the f5121 could not be the device they support, then it would be interesting if work could go on.

NuklearFart ( 2017-07-04 15:04:59 +0300 )edit

2

It has been said explicitly and implicitly since the announcement of the project, that F5121 was the phone for which it was being developed. A lot of people -me included- bought it already as some kind of motivation for the time we still have to wait. It wouldn't be wise from Jolla to change now the target device. If they choose developing for a second one additionally (e.g. F5122, F5521...) , that's fine. However, Jolla should not betray the trust of their customers/backers/fans (once again...), since a lot of them -sadly, me included- are already looking for an alternative solution in case Jolla messes it up again.

lupastro ( 2017-07-05 09:03:06 +0300 )edit

I would have liked to be in that group, too :-/ I'll let them do the testing and development, and purchase the image (twice, in fact) when it gets released.

Direc ( 2017-07-05 15:25:20 +0300 )edit

could someone please tell what the problem is if the x port exists not to take it for the x compact becaise specwhise they are similar

NuklearFart ( 2017-07-08 12:54:58 +0300 )edit

4

answered 2017-08-01 09:43:50 +0300

ghling

4414 ●58 ●89 ●96

Another short update from the Jolla blog (https://blog.jolla.com/sony-xperia-project-update/), the first images are now available to the cbeta members:

We have been working hard to fulfill our promise of delivering the first images during July, and as the month of July comes to an end, we now have the images ready to be handed over to Cbeta group for the initial verification and testing. Having the software ready for the public depends on the findings during this round of testing done with Cbeta group. This is our first official release that we provide for a device that doesn’t come pre-loaded with Sailfish OS. We have already learned a lot in the process, so bear with us a bit longer.

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answered 2017-06-29 23:36:31 +0300

NuklearFart

1556 ●27 ●48 ●49

updated 2017-06-30 23:50:24 +0300

It sais the single Sim variante will be supportet (and no other version yet or in the first place). on the Sony page linked in the discussion of the blog post (https://www.sonymobile.com/global-en/products/phones/xperia-x/specifications/) there are three different variants, single sim, nano sim and dual sim or should it be understood that there are two versions, single and dual sim and both only have nano sim support? I need to know exactly which device can be bought. Another question would be if a community port is availiable for the device, of course without android support.

Update: Ok, here we go, the following means not to buy any device soon :( (Or: Only if at least a community port exists) Q: Which exact model of Sony Xperia X should we purchase prior to the launch of the OS? A: F5121 single SIM version is the model we are developing on. It should be noted that there is a possibility of details being changed until we announce the commercial details, therefore our advice would be to wait for the announcement before buying the device, just to be completely sure.

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I think there are two versions. Single sim and dual sim, both take nano sims.

Asseon ( 2017-06-29 23:41:35 +0300 )edit

3

There is F5121 version which is single SIM and F5122 which is Dual SIM. Jolla will support single SIM version.

atlochowski ( 2017-06-29 23:59:14 +0300 )edit

i really pine over for a later support of the F5122 Dual Sim... ^^

BlaeX ( 2017-06-30 09:21:44 +0300 )edit

Shall we buy it now and wait for CBeta end or wait and buy the device from Jolla Store?

magullo ( 2017-06-30 11:15:39 +0300 )edit

2

@magullo as Jolla said in blog comments, SFOS will be provided as "download" only - There will be no pre-flashed X to buy from Jolla.

chemist ( 2017-06-30 11:52:18 +0300 )edit

3

answered 2017-09-25 00:43:33 +0300

Tasos P.
136 ●4 ●9 ●14

I am an owner of a Jolla phone. It has served me reasonably well since I bought it in March last year (i.e. one and a half years ago), and I'd been happy with it despite some hardware troubles and software glitches (lack of functionality notwithstanding, like the now positively jobian "no notes in contacts" bug). However, while I've been happy with the phone, I have completely lost my trust in the _company_.

My phone battery has today died completely, and I have come to the shop to see the latest state of affairs. The company now no longer makes phones, let alone accessories like batteries for them. What guarantee do I have the this new-fangled Sailfish X project for which "some sort of continuation program will take place" after the 1-year warranty, isn't going to end up having the same fate as the Jolla phone project?

Plus, if we're going through all that trouble to install the OS on the commandline on linux, shouldn't there have been some sort of dual-boot solution offered? Or at least a backup of your factory settings? This is not mentioned anywhere. Is one seriously expected to forever wipe their stock android installation (let alone void their phone warranty) for an OS that is still deemed to be experimental (for that particular device) by its developers, and for which the only guarantee seems to be a vague promise of a "continuation program"?

I don't know ... it seems that unless the company comes up with something more concrete, it looks like this is the end of the ride for me, and I suspect many of their customers will probably feel the same way.

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2

I am not working for Jolla, not I have any relation with it, but I can understand the frustration quite well. This is only my opinion here. The thing is there are two type of users. The straight forward, I don't give a sh*t for my personal information and the opposite - I really care for my personal information. If you go the first way, all works fine and you don't have the troubles. If you go the second way .... it is hard, because I have not found any company providing an alternative. I don't know where you got your Jolla device. I bought an Intex Aqua Fish from India. So far there is no problem at all. It works very well with SailFish OS v.2.0.4. There should be instruction somewhere around the web how to replace your battery. Forget the warranty - batteries are standard - they are not produced by Jolla.

read here: https://together.jolla.com/question/65826/compatible-spare-battery/

find information on your exact model and replace with equivalent ;-)

regards

PS: life today is like in The Matrix, you either get the blue or the red pill :) It's all up to you

deloptes ( 2017-09-25 01:10:30 +0300 )edit

1

If I remember correctly, Jolla never offered spare parts such as batteries, even when they were a "hardware company". That was a big fail, and they even repeated that with the Jolla C.

Now that they are a "software company", things will change. The customer will have to buy Sony's hardware and Jolla's software. You have to ask Sony for spare parts and repair services, and Jolla will take care of software updates. Of cause there will be a grey area between hard- and software issues, but hopefully the Sony-Jolla collaboration will solve them. As a last resort, there would be the factory reset.

My expectation is that things will get better. We will get better hardware (I mean durability and stability, not only specs) and can use Sony's existing service infrastructure (at least spare parts are available). Jolla will continue to offer software support because that's their business.

Some thoughts about privacy. You either pay for something or you are the product. That's the way it works in the smartphone universe. You can decide to pay money to Apple or to Jolla, in this case your privacy will be respected rather well. Or, use Google services which are basically free, and pay with your data. You decide.

ziellos ( 2017-09-25 10:07:23 +0300 )edit

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@tasos-p If you want to buy battery for your Jolla 1 I can help you with that. In Poland it's possible to buy it. I can buy it for you and sent it to you. Brand new Jolla batteries. I don't know how this Polish shop get these batteries. All I can say these batteries are original and new.

atlochowski ( 2017-09-25 10:16:51 +0300 )edit

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answered 2017-10-04 20:48:49 +0300

jabgoe
286 ●6 ●14 ●20

now all of a sudden it says that you need to have a windows-os to get sailfish x working. this is a bad development. i'm quite certain that jolla had some installation instruction prepared for sailfish x when only linux was a platform to flash the xperia x. did this instruction disappear?

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3

Apparently Sony shocked Jolla with this Windows requirement in the last minute.

As I understood (there was some discussion I don't find now) it is technically still possible to flash from linux, but you will lose device identifiers, so the trouble will come later on. If you want to have everything clean, Sony requires to use their own tool, which they don't care to port to linux. So Windows it is, there is not much Jolla can do about it right now (and I doubt they will in the future despite such hints).

William ( 2017-10-04 21:04:01 +0300 )edit

2

can somwane confirm what Wiliam is saying? Would just be a reason more not to buy sony one on the bad side always on the bad side

Wuestenschiff ( 2017-10-04 23:08:05 +0300 )edit

Making your product rely exclusively on the whims of a third party business with no real stake or interest in your business be like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpE_xMRiCLE

Tasos P. ( 2017-10-20 12:54:13 +0300 )edit

2

answered 2017-09-24 13:14:10 +0300

OptimistiJolla
213 ●9 ●12 ●17

Have a single question: in Jolla Blog it is mentioned that one needs a "linux PC". If one doesn't have LinuxOS, how does one go about installing Sailfish X?

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4

what about using a linux live image? E.g. knoppix?

bomo ( 2017-09-24 13:27:07 +0300 )edit

2

Yes, I also think that the easiest solution will be to boot a Linux distro from e.g. a USB stick. The question is also discussed here.

luen ( 2017-09-24 23:12:50 +0300 )edit

yes. and im totally pro in jolla.doing so. imagine the other way round: you would need windows. you would have to buy thatbas linux user. absolute deal breaker.

kaktux ( 2017-09-25 14:57:07 +0300 )edit

2

answered 2017-09-27 18:15:22 +0300

ghling

4414 ●58 ●89 ●96

To keep this thread updated: There was a new blog post yesterday (found here: https://blog.jolla.com/sailfish-x-new-sales-start-day/ ) which announces that the start of the Sailfish X sale was postponed by a week and now should start at October 4th. According to the post, this should not change the date for the release (still October 11th). The decision for this was made because the flashing process of the image changed by quite a bit. From what I understand, Sony changed the conditions for their Open Device program and now require the use of their Emma Flashing tool, available for Windows only, for the installation of images (including Sailfish OS).

To quote James from the comments below the post:

I will however say that the Emma tool is now officially a requirement for everyone in order to flash their devices. Xperia X is supported by that tool, more on that later. So for further clarification (and maybe to repeat myself), the current official requirement from Sony is that everyone should use Emma tool in order to flash their devices.

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3

this is a big fat fuck you into everyone who saw sailfish as an open source driven project. windows only?? if this is not extended to linux in the near future jolla is a goner. so we have ti buy a mobile phone now, break the warranty and have to buy a propatory operating system, install it and only then can use rhe.image.we may have thought about buying?

non-crucial info well communicated again. guess i wont use dailfish anymore when my j1 passes. i for sure wont getvwindows just to have a sailfish phone.

as i dont know- what us needed to flash phones with the unofficiall images?? but i can guess- probably a smarter solution works.

kaktux ( 2017-09-27 21:02:43 +0300 )edit

3

Sorry, but are you sure about that? When reading the post it seemed obvious to me, that it's only a new way and a way that now enables windows users to flash their devices. The flashing from linux worked before and there were many complaints about that. Now I thought this gap is closed by the new emma tool and all windows users should be happy. But I didn't expect (and didn't understand it that way from the post), that we linux users will now loose the ability to flash. Have to read the comments you mention...

naytsyrhc ( 2017-09-27 21:53:18 +0300 )edit

3

Wow. Just read the regarding comments. That's really a big bad news. So now I'm forced to use Windows to flash Xperia. This is "put your favourite swear word here". Only way I see is to check if emma works with wine.

naytsyrhc ( 2017-09-27 22:08:05 +0300 )edit

So far no luck with wine and emma. Any version/combination tried so far let emma exit on start with the message "This version of windows is not supported by emma." :-(

naytsyrhc ( 2017-09-27 22:32:43 +0300 )edit

2

Luckily I already have a spare Windows VM. Still the news is a bummer for me. I'm guessing that linux flashing instructions will emerge sooner or later from the community.

For the lazy me: Can someone provide the link to Sony's licence terms? It sounds odd to me that they would flip the only supported flashing tool over the night.

Valentin ( 2017-09-28 14:15:06 +0300 )edit

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