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Jolla + Sony Xperia Q&A

asked 2017-02-27 17:10:55 +0300

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updated 2017-10-04 19:15:58 +0300

olf gravatar image

This is the big news. HUUUUUGE news in fact. Every Jolla user expected exactly that. Quality HW and SFOS officially supported by Jolla. But we have questions.

Post questions as separate answers and hopefully @veskuh or @james or anyone else at jolla will answer. In case this doesn't work on TJC we can take the questions to one of the community meetings.

Fire away.

Edit 2017.03.02 by c.la: I suggeted to discuss the Q&A in the upcoming Jolla community meeting, feel free to add yourself as substitute as likely I won't attend.

Edit chemist: if you start a specific Q&A you might also have it as wiki so teh actual Q&A can be added to the op. Please, do not put your questions into answers.

Answers: The answers to most of the questions can be summed in section 3. of This page

Edit 2017.06.29 by William: the blog post

Edit 2017-06-30 by Direc: The blog post now contains an FAQ section as an update.

Edit 2017-07-13 by h.berd: Look at the recent comments of the blog post about the 20MP AOSP driver blog post and maemo

Edit 2017-08-01 by ghling: The blog post was updated to announce the first images are available to the cbeta group.

Edit 2017-09-27 by ghling: According to a new blog post, the sale for Sailfish X now should start October 4th with the first relase still be available October 11th. To flash the images, you will need to use Sony's Emma Tool for Windows. See my recent answer for more details.

Edit 2017-10-04 by olf: From Jolla's shop, "As of October 4 only Jolla Tablet refund voucher customers can use the sales site. The wider sales opening will happen at the same time with the software delivery start.", which is still supposed to happen October 11.

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1) The slides stated that SFOS will be supported on a range of devices. Will those devices be available from the jolla store or a user can buy (from any ventor) and then install SFOS on one.?

2) Will sony give jolla access to the SW that powers its really good cameras so SFOS can fully exploit them?

3) Can we have a compact X on the store tomorrow :P

PS. I am so excited about this :D :D

ApB ( 2017-02-27 17:16:51 +0300 )edit

Mee too...almost nose-bleeding like hyped... posting here for later reads hope we will get here more details.

PatsJolla ( 2017-02-27 17:21:42 +0300 )edit

4) will it support Android as previous "official" devices?

pemek ( 2017-02-27 17:22:23 +0300 )edit

@pemek that would be a must...alien-dalvik is unfortunately too much needed on everyday basis.

PatsJolla ( 2017-02-27 17:24:37 +0300 )edit

1.) Will the Dual Sim models be supported if the single sim devices are going to receive SFOS?

2.) When can we expect the first Xperias with SFOS?

Armadillo ( 2017-02-27 17:29:28 +0300 )edit

28 Answers

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answered 2017-09-28 00:19:51 +0300

GD gravatar image

For those without windows.

If you have a machine which came with windows i.e. all laptops. Then run up a Windows VM, you won't need to activate it or even need a windows key, as you install emma flash the experia then enjoy deleting that VM. plus emma. Repeat and rinse again anytime you need to flash. If that's the only way.

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I don't have a Windows license. Where can I legally download a suitable VM?

Also, no support on Linux to flash a Linux OS to any device which exists because of Linux, is wrong on multiple levels. It might not be Jolla's fault, but for me it sure is an extra impediment and a factor to consider when buying a Sailfish X license.

Fuzzillogic ( 2017-09-28 00:40:28 +0300 )edit

You can download a iso from here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

Then use VirtualBox, you might also want to download the extension pack for USB 2 and 3 support.

emva ( 2017-09-28 01:54:21 +0300 )edit

@emva downloading the ISO is legal, I don't know how valid this use would be for a trial of windows. though it will work. plus it would remove any unwanted feature Sony may bring with emma.

GD ( 2017-09-28 04:48:06 +0300 )edit

@emva does that ISO allow you to run Windows as a LiveDVD, or does it really require installation (in a VM) to be useful for flashing? For Linux, many distributions have LiveDVD's. Also, there are up-to-date pre-installed VM's available.

For Windows, I know of VM's for web development testing in IE/Edge, but at least in the past they blocked installing anything else in those VM's.

Fuzzillogic ( 2017-09-28 22:51:31 +0300 )edit

Must be installed, Windows was never a run-live-from-disk type of OS, not officially anyways...

emva ( 2017-09-28 23:57:14 +0300 )edit

answered 2017-05-29 22:38:29 +0300

h.berd gravatar image

updated 2017-05-29 22:39:42 +0300

Is an EA Version available now and will we have the full support of the camera as known from android?

Tested the camera today on android and the results are very good :-)

Just 5 weeks till official release, I hope!!!

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The german phone news site teltarif published an article yesterday saying that the Sony is going to discontinue the "middle class" phones of the "X"-labeled range. Wonder if and how this will impact the Mer/SailfishOs project. English-language source is here.

For me personally the cheaper phones (XA range) are less interesting featurewise, the "high end" XZ range too expensive. I was planning on buying an X as soon as SFOS would become available, lookng forward to any more infos from people with more insight into the process!

kro ( 2017-05-29 22:46:44 +0300 )edit

No, Jolla doesn't have access to proprietary camera processing stuff, but the photos will still be best than any other Sailfish port.

Sthocs ( 2017-05-30 11:10:16 +0300 )edit

@kro no replacements with future models of the Xperia X middle range line. Does not affect existing devices and Jolla is porting SailfishOS for the existing device.

@h.berd The camera uses the AOSP drivers so basically 8mpx limitation and some denoising algorithms aren't available.

leszek ( 2017-05-30 20:26:10 +0300 )edit

thanks for your comments! It's a little bit frustrating to hear there will be a 8mpx limitation... The quality camera is one of the main reasons to buy a xperia x for me. Hope jolla will find a way to add the proprietary drivers. I would pay for it for sure... I could imagine a similar offer llke with the extra to pay hw-codecs on raspberry.

h.berd ( 2017-06-05 00:42:15 +0300 )edit

Would also consider paying for an updated camera driver (via the store?). There is little point in paying for 23mpx camera when you can only access 8 :/

Jolla88 ( 2017-06-09 16:21:23 +0300 )edit

answered 2017-08-07 22:50:39 +0300

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updated 2017-08-07 22:50:39 +0300

Direc gravatar image

What's the Android runtime level / AlienDalvik level on Xperia X?

Is it possible to install Google Play Services on top of it (like in Jolla 1)?

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I don't see any reason why one could not install Google Play on it. It would just be stupid from Jolla to somehow prevent anyone from installing it.

Ingvix ( 2017-08-11 15:37:07 +0300 )edit

@Ingvix It's not a question of Jolla preventing anything. The Google Play framework as you can read in its name belongs to Google. Google has every reason in the world, plus the technical possibility to make it impossible for non fully Android phones to run their services.

BtPht ( 2017-09-25 13:25:16 +0300 )edit

answered 2017-10-04 21:24:33 +0300

Upp15 gravatar image

This may have been asked before, but ... is it possible to flash (original ?) Android back to the device ?

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Hi, I recently read an article describing the process to flash forth and back the Xperia X. It looks like it was written before agreement was reached that the official flash tool would be "emma" as it was describing the process under windows. At some point of time these blog sites can be confusing, so now I tried to find the article and in 5min I reached nothing, but it looks like it is possible to flash to Sailfish and back to Android, yes

deloptes ( 2017-10-04 23:29:37 +0300 )edit

In theory yes. To be able to do that, you'll need to backup Sony's DRM keys: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1535948&postcount=1390

Sthocs ( 2017-10-10 12:14:06 +0300 )edit

Ok, from Sony's FAQ:

Q: If I change my mind later on, is there any way to restore my device?

A: No. Once you have unlocked the boot loader, you will not be able to revert the device back to a locked or original state or restore the DRM security keys. You can however use the Flash tool for Xperia™ devices to flash a generic Sony ROM, although it will not receive automatic software upgrades.

Upp15 ( 2017-10-11 22:17:48 +0300 )edit

answered 2017-07-14 21:25:50 +0300

vattuvarg gravatar image

An observation

Here in Sweden the amount of retailers offering the Xperia X is definitely dwindling rapidly. Is the situation similar in other countries as well?

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I don't know where I read that Sony is about to shut down the X series. It must have been here somewhere.

deloptes ( 2017-07-14 22:22:06 +0300 )edit

Supply in Germany is still good. Production of the X is discontinued, but I believe it will need some months till the market is empty...

h.berd ( 2017-07-14 23:37:30 +0300 )edit

Portugal: found 1 shop with 1 F5121 white. Said that they could order the black one... About 350 E

A.Maretzek ( 2017-07-15 00:41:44 +0300 )edit

hmm, this let me think about to order afap, but there is still no official confirmation from jolla for f5121...

h.berd ( 2017-07-15 01:53:17 +0300 )edit

I bought the X compact. It's still available, seemingly in sufficient quantities, but the price is coming slowly down. As there are not so many small devices on the market, there is a justification for the X compact and it might survive longer. I hope its not too difficult to prepare a SFOS image for the compact once the image for the X is ready.

Stefanix ( 2017-07-15 10:32:26 +0300 )edit

answered 2017-08-18 19:06:39 +0300

NuklearFart gravatar image

Even i did not allow Softwareupdater to run in background it always tries to update my x. Somewhere i read to install other mods the system needs to be downgraded. How is that for the Sailfish port?

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Sony XX has now Android 7.1.1. I asked ftom Jolla support, and they said that Androids 6 and 7 are tested to be valid for transformation to SFOS. So I think we can without any troubles so far.

N9Sailfish ( 2017-08-23 13:57:17 +0300 )edit

answered 2017-10-04 16:31:15 +0300

ghling gravatar image

updated 2017-10-04 16:32:18 +0300

Looks like most of us will have to wait a little longer. The new site for SFOS X (https://jolla.com/sailfishx/) currently states:

As of October 4, 2017 only Jolla Tablet refund voucher customers can use the sales site. The wider sales opening will happen at the same time with the software delivery start.

Not that it matters since the image will not be available until next week or so...

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(delivery start ... ) which is scheduled for the Oct. 11 - I think this is OK

deloptes ( 2017-10-04 16:34:45 +0300 )edit

strange, late at the option to buy it and now only refund users... lets hope its not a bad sign.

h.berd ( 2017-10-04 20:34:22 +0300 )edit

answered 2017-04-27 08:31:18 +0300

_ _ _ _ T A _ _ _ _ gravatar image

updated 2017-04-29 23:40:07 +0300

Sony has added dualSIM device to the list of devices that are part of its Open Device Program.The device is the Xperia XZs. And GSMArena here http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_xzs-8599.php says this device "(...) SIM: (1) Single SIM (Nano-SIM) - G8231 (2) Dual SIM (Nano-SIM, dual stand-by) - G8232 (...)". So there is dualSIM SONY device that fits and is available for SailfishOS cooperation IMHO.

When will be triSIM or at last dualSIM Sony Sailfish device and which model it will be? Jolla & SONY can use a such device for Sailfish cooperation? Could Jolla (as side) ask SONY (as side) about that? I suppose such a question is neither forbidden nor excluded from the beginning, is it?

We the users, need a device with triSIM or at last with dualSIM stand by. Why Sony device is announced to be only singleSIM? Why a more SIM slots device would not to work for Sailfish cooperation when it works for both SONY and Jolla already? Both have such devices.

If one want to use only one SIM can leave other slots just empty, but when one wont to use more SIMs, more then one SIM card, can't do it if there is no more free slots for next SIMs in a device. For big number of users this is essential factor for decision which mobile to buy.

That was the uncorrectable failure of Jolla1 which had negative influence on its sell and reputation, despite still it is a brilliant device in other aspects. I don't deny that some users don't care about it at all, but usually that changes when only they can try triSIM or dualSIM themselves or when only using mobile for work/family/hobby purposes will enforce using more then one SIM.

TriSIM and dualSIM are standard for common users. And believe me or not: it doesn't meter at all if anybody will reply here "I use only singleSIM and I am happy with it", just because it does not make others happy with single SIM. Just because I and all who care for comfort and requirements in this aspect will not use singleSIM anymore, just like that. Just like I will not buy neither any mobile with a battery weight of 2kg nor any mobile without possibility of dialling and answering calls - just because it has not essential basic quality & functionality that mobile must have. Period.

Note also: AquaFish is dualSIM, thankfully Jolla C is dualSIM, INOI R7 is dualSIM, Ermak 50 is dualSIM, Oysters SF is dualSIM. Perhaps Turing also. Jalla seems to have similar plans. Very improbable is Sailfish device for China market without at last dualSIM or triSIM. In fact ALL Sailfish devices currently in sell are at minimum dualSIM.

This is not accidental, this is so called megatrend rule. The point is that a number of users can't and will not buy a mobile without basic for them "must have" essentials, even from Sony. I and some others would like to buy a Sony Sailfish. When will be triSIM or at last dualSIM Sony Sailfish device and which model it will be?

How about SONY Xperia XZs - identified as G8232 - Dual SIM (Nano-SIM, dual stand-by) - G8232 ? Why that would not to work for and with Sailfish OS?

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"I use only singleSIM and I am happy with it"

emva ( 2017-04-27 22:22:45 +0300 )edit

I can understand DualSIM....but TriSIM???? WTF??

lupastro ( 2017-04-27 22:33:38 +0300 )edit

The one user in the world who thinks triple-sim is a necessity believes that just because he alone demands it, phone manufacturers will somehow deem there is a sufficient user base to mass-produce such phones... Happy to downvote your obnoxious, entitled screed!

bocephus ( 2017-04-28 02:04:39 +0300 )edit

There were comments pro&con but they automagically has disappeared when post was converted to comment (not by me) and reposted (by me). I mention this here just to clarify that I don't fight dirty with opponents by deleting their posts which are opposite to my position/believes etc. BTW I think this is a kind of bug of site logic, as those comments ought to stay untouched, despite converting it twice IMHO.

_ _ _ _ T A _ _ _ _ ( 2017-04-28 09:54:38 +0300 )edit

I am not the only one user in the world who thinks triple-sim is a necessity, as there are triSIM mobiles in sell at markets, as there is simply demand for this. Looks vendors assumed user base sufficient enough.

Frankly I don't understand individuals thinking like bocephus does: "when I use singleSIM then everybody must do the same". I would call it selfish, as no arguments were used only empty talking. And if all would follow that way then "as everybody uses Android" there would be no place for Sailfish, as that is exactly the same case.

@bocephus And can Sailfish user base compared to Android user base, can it be called sufficient dear bocephus? Really? You don't have to agree with me, but anyway it is good to have good arguments. And why do you think it is good idea to deprive me essential functionality that is obligatory for me, just only because you haven't tried it ever so far? It is blind negation against progress towards customers/users needs and demands IMHO. If all would follow that logic then Sailfish would never happen. It happened cause ppl dare to dream about better, greater, open ocean and dare to sail. SingleSIMers are still burning with burning platforms. Think it over. ;)

_ _ _ _ T A _ _ _ _ ( 2017-04-28 11:03:35 +0300 )edit
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Asked: 2017-02-27 17:10:55 +0300

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Last updated: Oct 04 '17