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[request] Should the next phone be LTE dual SIM?

asked 2014-11-23 18:56:25 +0300

pulsar gravatar image

updated 2014-11-23 20:42:15 +0300

dulog gravatar image

I rephrase this question because it is specific to the next phone.

Someone suggested creating an Other Half with an additional SIM slot, and while that would be OK for the current phone which is not dual SIM, it is not ideal because you want to swap TOH's for colouring, and normally third party TOH's that you also want to use will not have it.

It was also not previously indicated that it took quite some time for dual SIM phones to catch up with 3G, and that they are not usually LTE (I think Samsung has reached this milestone now).

LTE is now a necessity is some places, so a dual SIM phone that is only 3G is no longer acceptable. LTE on only one SIM would be OK.

Also, the phone should be able to multiplex the data connection between the 2 SIMs, otherwise when you make one of them active, you lose the Whatsapp connectivity registered on the other number, for example (I understand Nokia had been able to accomplish this).

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2

yes, I would have nothing against tripleSIM there is no single operator, that covers my needs, having 3 SIM cards is MUCH cheaper at the cost of inconvenience of carrying 2-3 devices at all times.

ortylp ( 2014-12-20 04:33:24 +0300 )edit
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Do we even know there are any plans for any The Second One?

But as a sudden thought around this: Why is still mobile accounts still a plastic piece with a dumb memory circuit in nearly the year 2015? What a stupid standard! The mobile account should of course be a soft thing. Something you download with a passphrase the first time and after that managed with a certificate. Is this something that 3gpp covers ? What decides that it is like this? Contacts can always be stored and transferred in other ways.

Larswad ( 2014-12-21 10:49:21 +0300 )edit

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6

answered 2014-11-23 19:18:20 +0300

nthn gravatar image

In all these requests you mention that having a TOH available with that function is not an option. While I understand that switching from your keyboard-TOH to your projector-TOH to your additional-SIM-TOH may not always be very pleasant, you're essentially requesting a phone with so much niche hardware built in (a PROJECTOR? Seriously?) that it would be larger than several desktop computers combined. The point of the TOH is that it can be adapted to suit any specific kind of niche, with the phone itself being just a bare-bones device that the TOH can expand on.

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3

I think what these questions show is that the TOH is a good idea to add features to a limited device that already exists, but should not be used as an excuse not to integrate standard features in the phone.

pulsar ( 2014-11-23 19:24:18 +0300 )edit

@pulsar Dual sim, projectors and a 3d cam is not a standard feature. (However dual sim is a popular feature in countries like India, Pakistan and Bangladesh). Remember that Jolla will most likely have one phone at the time and adding all sorts of niche features would bring up the price, but wont really bring alot of new customers.

saimhann ( 2014-11-23 19:32:41 +0300 )edit
3

I mean standard in the sense that it is not a phone option, not that it is ubiquitous.

Dual SIM is also popular in Europe among people that can accept a basic phones, it is not present in high end phones there because of pressure from the operators.

pulsar ( 2014-11-23 19:44:22 +0300 )edit

@nthn - a projector doesn't have to be bulky, as demonstrated by Samsung. Perhaps there is room for a projector TOH but I'm not so sure that I2C is capable of such data transfer.

http://www.samsung.com/global/microsite/galaxybeam/feature.html

Regards,

Edz ( 2014-11-23 22:28:52 +0300 )edit

That is a 2012 model. This year they released the Beam 2 in China, which is 0.9mm thinner.

pulsar ( 2014-11-23 23:01:12 +0300 )edit
5

answered 2014-12-20 07:41:12 +0300

vattuvarg gravatar image

updated 2014-12-20 07:46:14 +0300

Yes, J2 should have dualSIM capability.

Yes, both should be capable of 4G connectivity.

...because even budget SoC packages support it nowadays.

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3

If you want to sell phones like hot cakes in India you need to have dual sim.That's what even microsoft has understood.

sailor ( 2015-03-14 00:49:59 +0300 )edit
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DualSIM makes sense in other markets too.

If Jolla uses an Intel processor in J2 then hopefully that means a x3-C3440 SoC.

GSM Arena

The top chip of the x3, the C3440, doubles the 3G speed with 42Mbps HSPA and brings LTE Cat. 6 (both international and Chinese flavors). For phones there's dual-SIM connectivity and Voice over LTE (VoLTE). Locally it supports 650Mbps Wi-Fi networks (802.11ac).

In terms of performance, Intel estimates it will offer a 33% advantage over quad-core Cortex-A53s. Note that this comparison is with existing devices in the price ranges that Intel targets.

vattuvarg ( 2015-03-14 02:24:21 +0300 )edit
4

answered 2014-12-21 10:09:31 +0300

Stefanix gravatar image

Dual SIM: Yes! I support this mainly because this is a requirement in developing countries, which is a huge market. People are swapping SIMs to take advantage of promotions from different operators, its not about business / private numbers.

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So Germany is a developing country...

ortylp ( 2014-12-21 19:50:52 +0300 )edit

Not sure why you suggest this, @ortylp. My hope is that Jolla gets a reasonable market share and becomes a stable company. Countries like India have been the driving force to introduce dual SIM phones. Certainly there are other users in other countries who find this feature useful as well.

Stefanix ( 2014-12-22 10:12:24 +0300 )edit
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@Stefanix I need 3 SIM cards to cover my (private) use cases and NOT pay a fortune in monthly bills in Germany

ortylp ( 2014-12-23 22:45:09 +0300 )edit

Like I already said, some have learned how to use advantages of multisim. As it is better it will not be stopped, it will grow day by day.

_ _ _ _ T A _ _ _ _ ( 2015-01-05 14:14:33 +0300 )edit
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answered 2015-01-26 12:40:56 +0300

matthias gravatar image

Absolutely same with me, I have my favourite Number in one Slot and a second Slot with a Data subscription. That way I can change my data provider without needing to move my phone number from Provider to Provider.

Another reason for Dual SIM is living near any Border in Europe and working in another Country. Thanks to Europe that it's possible, but shame to all providers that do not offer Europa capable contracts.

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1

Local Break-Out (LBO) might be just the thing for you:

If you opt for LBO (Local Break Out), only your mobile Internet usage will be billed by your alternative operator, and only in the country and on the network of the operator in question

http://support.en.proximus.be/app/answers/detail/a_id/16368

Theoretically available Europe-wide since the summer of 2014.

oenone ( 2015-01-26 13:15:39 +0300 )edit
2

answered 2015-02-01 19:00:00 +0300

gabs5807 gravatar image

updated 2015-02-01 19:08:52 +0300

Hello, in my opinion dual sim support is necessary for two groups of users:

  • The first one want be able to use different provider for voice and data.
  • The second group want use one phone for privat and business.

For both groups the phone/tablet must be enabled to support two (or more) sims. Possible enhancements are

  • The phone has two slots (i would prevere)
  • A usb sim dongle is supported (also for a third one)
  • (for jphone only) There is The Other Half (TOH) that enables an additional sim (the same as above)

On software side the enhancements are different for both groups. While the first group use both sims privat or for business, there is no reason to protect the content for each other. For the second group the split is a requirement. I know many companies which did not allow sharing one phone for privat an business. There are more reasons why they do so.

  • First is, in some countries (e.g. germany) a company which allow the staff using the business phone for privat phone calls, email, ... acts as a phone provider and liable to correspond law. I think therefore the owner of the sim is the crucial factor.
  • Second is, the security - most companies are non very happy if confidential information get lost.

For the first item a dual sim support is necessary to split the hardware in a privat and a business part.

Now to the second item (which is more complex). Some apps send information (contacts, emails, ...) to the company the app comes from. To prevent this, for other Phones there are some mobile iron apps which create ist own crypted container. Other companies allow to reset a lost phone.

Now sailfisch is able to crypt the home partition (i think the dmcrypt kernel module allow this). So the data of a lost phone (if it is locked) are protected - business and privat one. The enhancement to split privat and business can be done by creating different users (like all other unix/linux/bsd OSes SailfishOS can do this also). Now if the different sim slots can be assigned to the different users, the privat apps cannot use business data and the other way. A WLan or VPN connection to contact the intranet of a company must also save there information, keys, certificates, .. in the business home and privat WLan information should be stored at the privat users home. Also business related pki information (for access to confidential web sides or emails) must be protected. May be a connected usb dongle with an additional sim, pki, .. should be assigned at plugin to the user which need the item.

I think there are a lot of enhancements to get this to work. But if it works it is the best choice for one phone for business and privat. And the basic software infrastructure is allready available in SailfishOS - or planned in version 2 (multitasking, multiuser, split screen, data encryption, ...

And for people which will use multiple sims with one user (for voice and data), like the first group, it should be also possible to assigne more sims to one user.

I hope the long text is understandable (i'm no english nativ speaker)

Gabriel

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answered 2014-12-19 23:00:07 +0300

_ _ _ _ T A _ _ _ _ gravatar image

New mobile must be AT LAST dualSIM, however triSIM is much more preferred. It is common standard to have one number for professional and another one for private purposes. I prefer 3, this is more comfortable. AND I would never use 2 or 3 devices, never ever.

Any mobile is for communication first. That is why SIMs ports ought to be in the main body, but not with TOH. Also connections for SIM ports in my limited understanding are easier to mount/obtain with the main body then TOH - this is just basic hardware, not the optional to be added with TOH.

By longer time experience I can say it is quite hard to have connectivity on all SIMs all the time - in fact that would require active 3 (respectively 2) transmitters/receivers. And there is no sense to drain battery without need I think. And yes, I think there will not be 100% connectivity all the time, it will be interrupted by many events including cell change or no-range wholes/areas etc.etc..

.

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2

I don't think dualSIM is a must on every phone, as the use cases differ quite a bit (some need multiple SIMs, some don't). To polarize it: I'm just a student with no need for a secondary phone number, and then there are others who run companies and organisations and want to be left alone sometimes, but still want to keep in touch with the persons close to them...

Kayakist ( 2014-12-19 23:58:52 +0300 )edit
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  1. Even a mobile is not a must for everybody. Some need mobile, and some not, just "to polarize it". Students who work either for money or ideas like Greenpeace use multi sim. I use TRIsim: 1st - priv and family, 2nd - work & education, 3rd - internet (better payments) and others.
    1. Point is that those who use only one SIM can leave second and third port empty. But those who want more comfortable use can't "implant" second and third port.
    2. Considering production scale and costs adding additional ports is relatively a small cost, but to launch a short series with additional ports and set whole technological line for this purpose is a huge cost, and it is not effective way. There is a place for next 2 SIM cards in Jolla smartphone near the existing one.
    3. In fact, when any budget phone have 2 or 3 SIM cards, including Lumias and Ashas, then why Jolla with its price would not give TRIsim or at last DUALsim? I can't find any good reason.
    4. Without TRIsim a mobile including Jolla for certain number of customers is a toy or a gadget they will never try as their life and work or entertainment style etc.etc. already exclude use of singleSIM devices.
    5. And number of them (who want only TRIsim and DUALsim) is constantly growing, otherwise TRIsim and DUALsim would not be in constant sell normally. It is a trend that Jolla has not taken under consideration. Especially in Asia many or most mobiles are triSim and dualSIM.
    6. The comfort of many SIM is not equal to additional number with the same SIM, as it can't be managed separately, and that is not acceptable solution considering customer needs I have mentioned above.
    7. I can pay additional cost like 30$ for 4G, but for sure oldschool or archaic single SIM can't be my primary mobile. Even when Jolla is my love and Sailfish my favourite OS - still I need professional mobile which is TRIsim.
    8. For Jolla a cost of missing 2nd and 3rd SIM card ports is cost of lost chance of unsold mobiles.
_ _ _ _ T A _ _ _ _ ( 2014-12-20 11:43:18 +0300 )edit
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A mobile phone probably is a must for the great majority of those who consider buying a 400€ device in the first place. Multiple SIMs may be a norm in some parts of the world, but not a universal must.

Kayakist ( 2014-12-20 16:42:02 +0300 )edit
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I don't want to be rude but discussing this way is senseless. Multisim is worldwide, not in some parts of the world. The biggest popularity of this is in EU, Asia, Japan, in general in places with more intensive use of mobile phones and in places of intensive growth. I really don't see any reason when I am to pay 400€ for the device then why I can't have the most crucial part (connectivity via SIMs) in the way that is a must for me, the most comfortable for many, and available with any noname? Available with Lumia and Asha? Available with every noname OS! Then why I can't have 3 SIM cards with Sailfish which is wants to be seen as one of the most modern of OSes? And last but not least multiSIM is demanded, as this is a standard. If you think differently make Jolla in single SIM version and in 3 SIM cards version. I just need it to use Jolla as a primary mobile, without it - it is NO GO failure.

_ _ _ _ T A _ _ _ _ ( 2015-01-01 22:17:10 +0300 )edit

@_ _ _ _ T A _ _ _ _ What do you mean by "senseless"? You state your opinion, and I reply to it with mine. That's what TJC is about...

Fact: you obviously need for a multi-sim device and I, on the other hand, don't. Both our views are based on our experiences as individual phone users in a specific country (mine being Finland), and are equally valid for our particular use cases.

Yes, multi-sim is used worldwide, but its popularity differs from one part of the world to another. Basically, I think the need for dual/multi-sim all boils down to two things: the need to separate your private life from the rest (work and/or school), and the pricing of mobile services. The former is a personal preference, and the latter is an issue that should be taken up with the service providers, not a (admit it) minor player in the mobile HW market.

If you really want to expand the possibilities of SailfishOS, you should support the Jolla- community in their efforts in porting the OS to other devices, not by demanding new hardware not everybody needs, on a phone that might not even come to being (which would be a real pity, I have to say...)

Kayakist ( 2015-01-02 02:36:27 +0300 )edit
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answered 2015-02-02 12:28:24 +0300

M.Bln. gravatar image

@Jolla: Anyway if single, dual or any other quantity - please AVOID Nano-SIMs form factor. The Micro form factor is already that small that I nearly break my (thick male) fingers when trying to change the card - with Nano-Sim form factor would increase the possibility of injury!

Actually I prefer having Mini-SIM slots but I suppose Micro-Sim is already a kind of standard.

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answered 2015-03-24 11:50:06 +0300

iourine gravatar image

Not to say "it should" - definitely it _must_. For splitting corporate and private use, voice and data use, different operators in different countries and regions which you visit frequently (and there is surely a lot of such people among Jolla users).

Not to say that betting on microSIM format was definitely a mistake and now forces me having more SIMs that I actually need, just because it is not possible to put a circumvented SIM back into a regular phone.

The Jolla's crazy idee-fixees about what they call "the other half" - not even proved to be viable yet, or to make any practical sense! - is definitely not an excuse for not having the features that are already proven, claimed by users, and widely offered at the market.

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answered 2014-12-20 12:14:37 +0300

this post is marked as community wiki

This post is a wiki. Anyone with karma >75 is welcome to improve it.

updated 2014-12-20 12:14:37 +0300

_ _ _ _ T A _ _ _ _ gravatar image

The reason I have never tried iPhone is exactly lacking TRIsim device - it is not practical device for common user.

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5

Don't make generalizations that are just not true. In many countries a phone with only one SIM socket is very practical for the majority of common users.

Okw ( 2014-12-20 12:51:07 +0300 )edit

The point is: when you have 3 sim slots you don't have to use all of them, but when you have only 1 sim slot you can't use more then 1 sim even if your life would depend on this. So when I ask for 3 sim device I don't enforce everybody to use 3 sims, but when my device have only 1 sim slot I am enforced not to use more then 1 sim, that is artificial limitation of my needs and how I am to use my device. Paraphrasing: "Don't make generalizations that are just not true. In many countries a phone with only one SIM socket is very not practical for the majority of common users." - but take under consideration what I have written above, and notice that 1 sim slot is limitation, while 3 sim slot is opportunity which you don't have to use when you don't want, but for great number or majority of common users this is a must - and it doesn't meter "why". Just exactly in the same way as it doesn't meter "why" do you need a mobile at all. Whatsmore it is very common that when one try for a time triSim or dualSIM device and find advantages for himself/herself then most often change old single sim device in favour to trisim or dualsim device. I use now 3 sim together: 1st sim and 2nd sim for conversations and 3rd sim for internet, and thanks to that I have lowered my bills at last 50%, and my accessibility has been improved, at last people around me say it is better then before. When I can use more modern car I will prefer it then less modern car, unless I want to collect monuments of motorisation. I prefer to use more modern 3 sim then lower number of sim and less modern devices. That is what I call a progress and answering customers needs, that is what I want to pay for more willingly because this how I use mobile. And many others like me also use it in the same way. The more SIMs the better, however 4 SIMs can be to much, 3 SIMs (triSIM) is optimal for most using many sims, 2 SIMs (dualSIM) is minimum standard but not optimal, 1 SIM (single SIM) is not enough,see above

_ _ _ _ T A _ _ _ _ ( 2017-04-07 16:01:22 +0300 )edit
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Asked: 2014-11-23 18:56:25 +0300

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Last updated: Mar 24 '15