asked 2019-03-06 01:03:21 +0300
According to this article, EU wants to make impossible to use custom OS which has not been certified by the manufacturer on radio devices like smartphones. That could be end of Sailfish X/Sailfish OS, isn't it?
answered 2019-03-06 02:42:12 +0300
It looks indeed like a critical issue and the intention of the EU might be something else than the protection of the radio network. My company prepares a phone for Europe with an alternative to iOS and Android, preferably with Sailfish OS. It might be sufficient to ensure, that the custom operation systems doesn't violate the radio standard.
The problem is, that the ODM or OEM seems to be forced to protect the device against flashing, because if a customer can flash the device, he or she could - theoretically - install software, that violates the radio standard. This is far away from pratice, because a developer mode of devices would be almost impossible.
A possible - not complete solution - could be a - preferably - open source firmware repectively protected base layer that allows to install different operation systems. For this purpose we would need a hardware abstraction layer. I think, this is the intention of the Halium project. The final vision would be, that you can choose any OS you want.
Most devices, even with alternative operation system including Sailfish OS depend on a base AOSP Layer, because almost all chinese vendors are using this de facto standard. Unsing AOSP as a base layer might be sufficient for the EU regulation to - at least - sell phones to consumers with a different operation system.
answered 2019-03-06 22:13:27 +0300
Honestly, I don't get why this has everyone so worked up... Yes, modem firmware might get more locked down, i.e. signed, but it's not like it is anywhere near open now anyway. As I understand it that's the part we got straight from Sony when installing SFOS, and Sony then owns the compliance. The OS on the device has nothing to do with compliance on the radio side. However, this is a common misunderstanding inherent with the term "ROM", and that could be just as bad, i.e. yield the same results given sufficiently ignorant companies and regulators.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying this is a good initiative in any way. A key question here should be what concrete abuse problems they actually intend to address. AFAIK there aren't really any to speak of.
I understand your reasoning and I think you assume that there can be good laws (from a consumer perspective) coming from the EU. But experiencing EU legislation in recent years or decades convinced me to be alerted and to take a closer look. A very complicated legislation process and lobbyism are just two things making me think that the result will be another horrible example for people already dismissing the european idea. Sure, in the beginning its just wifi/radio drivers, but to make devices tamper proof command line access or developer mode with ssh will follow. I don't think that will be the case with sailfish, but I do have other devices already locked down that much with similar reasoning (hey AVM). And even with sailfish you can see the problems with too much control in wrong hands (i.e. sony): xperias with sailfish have subpar image quality compared to android just because of locked down software.
No. We don't need devices to be locked down even more. We already have too much obstacles to use machines or computers the way we would like to.
fooza ( 2019-03-07 19:38:47 +0300 )editLet's just fight their ham-fisted fear with reason and good arguments. And I do think, for example, a decent set of consumer rights laws is good, and the only chance we in the smaller countries would have to get them respected is if they are aligned with others. Also, i don't think i have seen so any open and semi-open phone projects ever as in the last year. Wouldn't it be neat if there was a right to repair regulation that covers software?
attah ( 2019-03-07 21:33:56 +0300 )editanswered 2019-03-06 06:59:34 +0300
otoh, odms might consider selling devices with sfos preinstalled (finally) . plus, the bill mentions that software which has not been certified should not be installed, so not any software a prioris. we might finally get rid of the filthy bootscreen on sony devices :)
answered 2019-03-06 20:40:36 +0300
Here you can vote against this - or at least vote for politicians who do not support acticle 13: https://pledge2019.eu/ BTW, this was also shared today by Edward Snowden on Twitter.
Furtheremore, I just want to mention that voting against article 13 has nothing to do with the proposal of the EU to illegalize custom ROMs/firmware, so that the manufacturer of the radio-equipped device shall be made responsible. 4th of March deadline to give your opinion has anyways already passed. However, this still links the freedom of choice and FOSS to be used by the enduser. Here's more to read if someone is interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/ax7dup/eu_considers_approval_procedure_for_custom_roms/
answered 2019-03-06 19:36:46 +0300
(i) | radio equipment supports certain features in order to ensure that software can only be loaded into the radio equipment where the compliance of the combination of the radio equipment and software has been demonstrated.
For me the word "combination" is a real important key word.
Means for me that each owners of the parts (software and equipment) are responsible of its parts.
And if both were in contact, knows each other, and attest that they are compatible, then combination is safe.
That only with condition if both side are playing fair.
I don't think that is dangerous For open projects. Because until today those device producer who wanted to play with opensource projects, took the initiative for it, choose their partner, and opened their black box for them.
Here it will just strengthen the responsibility for each actors, and reduced that some clowns or careless people develop something with a low security level.
Is just a bad point for hackers and reverse-engineering devs.
That's my point of you. any may discuss against it
Cheers
Asked: 2019-03-06 01:03:21 +0300
Seen: 1,989 times
Last updated: Mar 06 '19
iirc Sailfish X officially allowed by Sony
coderus ( 2019-03-06 05:52:28 +0300 )editIn other words, we should all get a Radioamateur licence for EU so we wouldn't be illegal acting ;-) This just makes hacking more exciting!
Marti Masa K ( 2019-03-06 20:12:45 +0300 )edit@coderus - no, SFOS is not “officially supported “ by Sony. Sony have opened some of their devices, and released sources for those. It’s not the same thing. This, if comes to reality, may force Sony to lock (new) devices for flashing any firmware NOT SIGNED by Sony. Alternatively Sony would have to test and verify that any firmware would not interfere with the radio, still, they would need to enable signing of any firmware after it have been tested.
Nieldk ( 2019-03-06 21:11:02 +0300 )editToo bad the commenting period ended last monday so I could not give feedback.
This initiative sounds like something that was proposed in the US some time ago, but I don't know if that legislation got passed there?
juiceme ( 2019-03-07 09:58:35 +0300 )edit