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[Wiki] Suggestions for J3 - a smaller phone [not relevant]

asked 2014-10-10 18:23:23 +0200

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updated 2016-04-30 10:02:15 +0200

vattuvarg gravatar image

There are lots of wishes here at TJC for a smaller phone. The next phone from Jolla (let's call it J2) will probably be the same size as J1. But if a smaller one would be conceived, what would make it different from both J1 and the still secret J2? ...and why?

Please focus on only one difference in each answer, OK?


The third phone
The suggestions for a smaller phone are not intended for the next Jolla phone (J2). Instead they are meant for a phone to complement it. The two phones should have similar capabilities but one would of course have to be adjusted to cope with the limitations of a smaller size.

That is why the smaller concept phone now has the nickname J3.


Battery time
A current survey revealed that a majority of mobile phone users want a longer battery time, even if the phone needs to be thicker to accommodate the larger battery volume. An answer for battery has been added for that reason.


Rumours of a new small iPhone
The rumours of a smaller apple phone were true and that device, the iPhone SE, is selling very well.


Still hoping

Jolla will not build the J3 as the company focus is software now. Yet I still hope that some company will build a phone with a four inch display. The ladies of my family (both young and mature) still have hands smaller than mine and still wait for a Sailfish OS device that would be small enough for them. There is a fairly strong market in the sub-5-inch sector and there should at least be one device available there with Sailfish OS. Don't you agree?

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The question has been closed for the following reason "question is not relevant or outdated" by nthn
close date 2017-10-15 17:38:23.221016

Comments

28

I am not looking for a smaller SailfishOS, will not purchase a smaller Jolla. So I vote against.

WilliePre ( 2014-10-10 18:46:59 +0200 )edit
1

@WilliePre
Then you should vote for your favourite in the Jolla 2nd hardware suggestions. I did. :) The J2 will probably be the same size as the current device.

vattuvarg ( 2014-10-10 19:03:15 +0200 )edit
4

Has it occurred to anyone that if you reduce the form factor, then you reduce the battery size - which means you reduce the battery life ...

strongm ( 2014-10-10 21:23:05 +0200 )edit
2

Sure, but then they'd be bucking against current design goals of keeping phones thin (Galaxy S4 7.9mm, iPhone 5 7.6mm). Frankly, the current Jolla is a bit of a fatty. And let's be honest. ALL smartphones could benefit from better battery life, and that could be addressed in ALL phones by making them thicker. Yet no-one does ...

strongm ( 2014-10-11 14:50:12 +0200 )edit
1

A phone thinner than that would be possible with a slimmer camera module and a more efficient SoC. The trend for slim phones is partially explained by the fact that most people have their phones in protective cases.

vattuvarg ( 2014-10-11 15:05:06 +0200 )edit

28 Answers

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3

answered 2014-10-11 20:18:44 +0200

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updated 2014-10-25 14:57:47 +0200

vattuvarg gravatar image

Accessories

  • The smaller Jolla phone could be delivered with a "microphone cable" that would allow the user to have buttons on the cable while using any earphones. Think of it as an extension cable with added functionality.
  • A 1.2m USB-to-µUSB cable is supplied for charging and data transfer. Additional chargers would be bought at the Jolla shop.
  • An adapter for video out (preferrably HDMI) should be included.
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Comments

2

A powered USB hub should be available from the Jolla shop.

vattuvarg ( 2014-10-25 13:04:04 +0200 )edit
3

answered 2014-10-21 00:59:54 +0200

zeta gravatar image

updated 2014-10-22 00:04:58 +0200

Today I have an N8, so what I ask is only something that can replace it (I don't think it is asking too much ?).

So what did we have 4 years ago, compared to Jolla 1 ?

  • a little more than 400€ => close to Jolla 1
  • 16GB internal memory => same as Jolla 1
  • 12Mpix camera with 1.8µm cells, and Xenon flash => can't compare to the low performances 8MPix of Jolla 1
  • HDMI output => nothing on Jolla 1
  • USB OTG powered (limited by Symbian but would be really great on Linux) => nothing native on Jolla 1 (can be tricked, but needs a powered hub, so kills the ability to use it)
  • FM receiver => nothing on Jolla 1
  • FM transmitter => nothing on Jolla 1
  • OLED display with low power screen saver => LCD screen that can't do low power mode on Jolla 1 (and difficult to read outdoor)
  • 3.5" screen => 4.5" screen (too big for me, perfect for others)
  • small ARM11 single core at 680MHz => dual core Cortex-A7 at a decent 1.4 GHz
  • 256MB Ram => bigger 1GB Ram
  • no expansion slots (not really need on N8 as everything is already in it) => limited I2C/NFC expansion on Jolla 1 through other half

So if 4 years ago, all that hardware fitted in a 3.5" phone, with 2 days of battery, why 4 years after Jolla could not do an up to date version of it ? Add the latest release of the standards (bluetooth 4 LE or LTE for example, as already done on Jolla 1), add some more memory (32GB ?), enough power processing (because too much drain the battery and cost too much compared to the benefits at some point), a slightly bigger screen no matter the resolution (a 3.9" like on N9 would be perfect), NFC that can be used for real things (not only other half) and here we go.

HW keyboard is a plus if it can be integrated like in the old Nokia E7, or the Motorola Photon Q. An other half doesn't look like the perfect solution, as with it the center of gravity is not on the right side (battery is with the screen and not the keyboard...), and thickness is greater as less integrated.

HDMI and USB OTG allow to use the Jolla as a real computer when on the move at the hotel for example. On the other side, I can't see what to do of an eight core processor and 500dpi display, so please keep on what adds value to the product, and not fall for the marketing gimmicks.

For the details, I let Jolla handle them, as soon as they can keep a small size and those functions are in it.

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Comments

2

The camera inside J1 is 8Mp. From the rest of your post I gather that you would be quite happy with the suggestions so far. Wouldn't it be easier just to say so?

vattuvarg ( 2014-10-21 13:05:24 +0200 )edit
2

Thanks for the correction, I edited my answer to fix it.

I am ok with most of other suggestions, but wanted to point out what we have lost in the last years in term of functionality. Things like HDMI, FM and camera can't be replaced by software and powerful processors. I hope a new phone could bring all this back...

zeta ( 2014-10-22 00:10:58 +0200 )edit
1

My daughter loves my old Nokia 700. It has a lot of the stuff I'm hoping Jolla will put inside a smaller phone some day. But it runs on Symbian (Belle), which means that Microsoft has decided that it should die. Your N8 has been handed the same death sentence.

That's why I am trying to work out what that smaller phone should be. Sure, I could throw up a list of things that I want included and hope that someone will vote for it. But I thought that a wiki would be more constructive in getting some kind of debate about the details. It all seemed like a good idea at the time.

Of course it finally comes down to the decisions of the Jolla company. They are the ones creating the phone.

But Jolla is a company with probably the sharpest community in the world and they know it. That is why they are listening to us. I personally might not even be among the average people here, but I can do the dirty work instead. I can look at the smorgasbord of ideas flying around at TJC and then collect them here hoping that they will somehow condensate into a useful product. ...one that I can buy for my daughter. She has used my left-behinds for years (and proved beyond any doubt that she knows how to treat a phone) so now she deserves a proper tool that works with her smaller hands. Not a cheap toy.

You too deserve something worthy of replacing your N8. But if we sit down and just wait for things to happen then who will do our work for us? Who will wish upon a star in our place? So please forgive me for being an annoying pain in the butt. This is the only place in the whole wide world where I can present my wishes for a really good phone for smaller hands.

Yes, the chances are slim even here, but maybe..?

vattuvarg ( 2014-10-22 01:04:18 +0200 )edit

had the n8 before, now the jolla. no other phone on the marked can replace the n8 but jolla is nearest. i'd love to see the n8 haptic - so no plastic and seriously i want the block keyboard back. but after seeing an android device i think jolla is best replacement when it works fine. but you should think that the symbian system was pretty well known since ages, so jolla can not be that far in the system. but i think you are right when you say that hardware wise the jolla phone could and should be much better than the n8 4 years ago. btw my n8's battery run 3-4 days and on holyday 6 days without charging as long as i phoned not more than 3 hours a day ;)

NuklearFart ( 2014-10-27 19:52:02 +0200 )edit

The Intel x3 series of SoC all have built-in FM receivers. ...and adding a built-in fractal FM antenna would be really nice (as I use a bluetooth headset). That would make a nice radio for the even the most frugal user.

vattuvarg ( 2015-03-14 14:07:36 +0200 )edit
3

answered 2014-10-27 17:09:55 +0200

Ghost gravatar image

the next jolla or the j2 must be waterproof and dustproof because the thing is that living in india the phone will be prone to dust and water frequently..

since the jolla company is the ex-employers of the nokia ... nokia devices are to be sturdy no matter what the conditions are .. even the nokia lumia was so sturdy that in one report that it was stuck between the rocks at the side of the river. and the one who found that dried and used it and it really worked as a normal phone and it was really durable for daily use. even though it was covered in a layer of salt..

since the nokia phones are durable even though they are not waterproof or dustproof certified they were durable and even if it falls down or gets apart .. those devices still work...

my brother is having a nokia lumia 925. it is really durable and a good sturdiness.

that is what the next phone is that to have a good rigid phone to be durable enough thats all :) happy sailing..

given to that sailors should and must have a durable phone to BON VOYAGE!!!!!! :)

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Comments

A water repellent treatment should be used. The smaller phone is a tool to rely on and would thus benefit from the extra cost of the coating. Dustproofing is harder to do and might not be necessary.

vattuvarg ( 2014-10-27 18:44:54 +0200 )edit

The J1 seems to do fine with me. ...and I powdercoat stuff for a living...

vattuvarg ( 2014-11-29 14:30:06 +0200 )edit
2

answered 2014-10-10 19:00:30 +0200

ossi1967 gravatar image

one (unwelcome) difference would be that other halves purchased for the existing phone wouldn't fit. I'd be very disappointed about this.

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2

That is why I'm guessing that the next Jolla phone (that I've nicknamed J2) will be of the same size as the current one (J1). For my own use I would prefer a phone with the same size as the current phone, but others (even here at TJC) have requested a smaller device.

vattuvarg ( 2014-10-10 19:07:47 +0200 )edit

there are still no really usefull TOHs on the market and all of them are community products and no sign of a "real" company to make one

michel ( 2014-10-10 19:10:39 +0200 )edit
1

@michel
Anyone that caters to the needs of the Jolla community is a real company. Personally I'm thinking about buying a solar TOH. ...but would a smaller phone need to use the same concept?

vattuvarg ( 2014-10-10 19:25:28 +0200 )edit

@michel: I bought those other halves (from people I value more than 'real companies') and I like them. I hope that's OK with you.

ossi1967 ( 2014-10-10 19:38:19 +0200 )edit

of course thats no problem for me and i didnt want to insult the people that do otherhalves at all. Its just that I think there are too few TOHs on the market to make the next jollas dimensions depended on them

michel ( 2014-10-10 20:46:07 +0200 )edit
2

answered 2014-10-15 20:25:47 +0200

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updated 2014-10-15 20:25:47 +0200

vattuvarg gravatar image

Colours

The phone hardware more or less assumes some black glass. What would be nice colours for a smaller Jolla phone? Bright or subtle?

One colour combination per comment, please. Vote for the combination if someone else already posted it, ok?

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Comments

1

All black.

vattuvarg ( 2014-10-15 20:27:11 +0200 )edit

Brown, dark red and gold as the Rosendahl IV.

vattuvarg ( 2014-10-25 13:00:21 +0200 )edit

Anthracite and copper.

vattuvarg ( 2014-10-27 18:35:23 +0200 )edit
1

Interchangeable! Let's have a "First Half" concept!

Venty ( 2014-10-28 13:55:48 +0200 )edit

Eco. Different nuances of green.

vattuvarg ( 2014-11-29 14:15:08 +0200 )edit
2

answered 2014-10-25 13:11:50 +0200

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updated 2014-10-25 13:11:50 +0200

vattuvarg gravatar image

OtherHalf or not?

Should the smaller Jolla phone be equipped with OtherHalf technology?

Pros

  • Functionality can be extended.

Cons

  • Would introduce a second OtherHalf size.
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Comments

1

A smaller Jolla phone should have the same possibilities as the larger ones (J1 and J2). A smaller size OtherHalf would be necessary.

vattuvarg ( 2014-10-27 18:55:26 +0200 )edit
1

A smaller phone could use a modular construction. Thus the TOH concept would have only one size (the current one). See the answer suggesting modularity.

vattuvarg ( 2015-01-22 15:11:56 +0200 )edit

If the J3 doesn't use the OtherHalf concept then the NFC chip would be opened up for other uses.

vattuvarg ( 2015-03-14 13:58:37 +0200 )edit

Essential is the small dimension. If its possible to add the OtherHalf feature without problems, why not?

dissent ( 2015-06-01 13:43:55 +0200 )edit
2

answered 2015-01-22 15:09:04 +0200

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updated 2015-01-22 15:12:37 +0200

vattuvarg gravatar image

Modularity

image description

The smaller phone would offer a perfect possibility to use a modular approach, like Puzzlephone.

This would result in one series of TOH phones and another series based on modularity.

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Comments

After MWC215: A modular design would allow for easy battery swapping and SIM card access.

vattuvarg ( 2015-03-08 13:59:41 +0200 )edit
2

answered 2015-02-15 21:20:55 +0200

andersson gravatar image

For me the wish for a smaller Jolla is the fact that I mostly have my phones in my jeans front pocket, and this phone is just to big and sharp for that. I don't use any handbags or smart slingbags, I don't like to carry my phone in my hand nor do I like to place it on the table when I sit down. My phone should stay in my pocket until I need it. This is my biggest concern with the Jolla.

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If the J3 goes modular then it could have a different shape.

Any suggestions?

vattuvarg ( 2015-02-15 23:09:56 +0200 )edit
1

answered 2014-10-10 21:01:05 +0200

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updated 2014-10-27 18:33:54 +0200

vattuvarg gravatar image

Price

SailfishOS is more lightweight than other operating systems and technology advances all the time. This means that a system-on-chip that runs fast enough for the OS gets cheaper every month. The newer chips also tend to be more energy-efficient. That allows the battery to be smaller and cheaper too.

A smaller Jolla phone would need to make some sacrifices to make the battery last long enough. Those few sacrifices for getting longer battery time will also lower the price of the phone. ...but not by much.

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1

It seems that a low price is not a priority. Should the specs be upgraded for a more potent device with a higher pricetag?

As a comparison: Right now the J1 is selling at 249€ (with gift voucher).

vattuvarg ( 2014-10-25 15:02:54 +0200 )edit

A smaller Jolla phone should be a capable tool with a compact size. It should perform better than the J1 but have the same battery time as the J2 with a smaller battery. This leads to a price above the J1 but below J2.

vattuvarg ( 2014-10-27 18:24:29 +0200 )edit

I would accept every prices up to 1000$, so take what you want :)

heubergen ( 2015-01-22 20:04:40 +0200 )edit

After MWC215: A possible SoC is Intel's x3-c3440. Intel wants to get into mobile and this would help keep costs down for Jolla, without sacrificing performance or connectivity.

vattuvarg ( 2015-03-08 14:03:54 +0200 )edit
1

answered 2014-10-17 05:58:44 +0200

Ghost gravatar image

the phone is geat in size and shape. the only thing is that it hurts when it wedges inside the palm when used by one hand...

another feature that might be implemented is that of water resistant and dust proof.. :)

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1

I have tried some mockups of a smaller phone. Slightly rounded corners ia all it takes to make the phone more comfortable. To make the phone look like a bar of soap is not necessary.

The shape of the smaller phone is also mentioned in the Ergonomy category.

vattuvarg ( 2014-10-27 18:27:25 +0200 )edit

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Asked: 2014-10-10 18:23:23 +0200

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Last updated: Apr 30 '16